WD Project

[colin.hepburn]

Originally Posted by John7

This has no doubt been covered already, but what about people who sent money to WAD and didn't get their goods...

John

This happened to me i ordered a headphone amp from wad and did not hear nothing from them for about two weeks and then they had debited my account and emailed me saying that my kit had been dispatched well i never got the kit i then started proceedings to recover the payment this had taken four months to recover it

[John7]

Originally Posted by Greg.

Public exposure here of your problem isn't helpful, is it?

Best wishes,

Greg

Hi Greg.

As the person who introduced me to WD, I didn't expect this response. What's the matter? The JOB getting you down?

I was curious as to the situation re. WAD. I had missed all the WAD/WD/HFW 'shenanigans' due to being seriously ill.

And best wishes to you too.

John

[Ianm2]

Wad was originally started by noel and was at its best then, good designs properly implemented and loads of speakers.

he sold it to nick lucas who wrecked it afaik, did things super cheap, with poor parts and ran it into the ground, with precious few new ideas.

and thence onto phil and mark who ended up having a colossal bust up, fight, and walked out, citing people being difficult to work with, too. again development here was pretty stagnant.

I have little doubt our discussion of chinese amps contributed, as wad was not making ends meet, to keep the 2 of them in rich luxury.

In fact, it never ceases to amaze me how many tiny hifi spares companies exist for such a niche market, of so few, it really isn't a way to get rich, and that precious marketplace is diminishing, whilst competition from other kit companies, chinese amps and ebay is rocketing.

if I had to hazard an opinion, I would say very bad business sense to get into the kit market, I sense things are going downhill rapidly, commercially, the uk hifi market is truly on its knees.

kit makers really do only have a finite shelf life, and reincarnate in different forms all the time.

guess what's to blame, internet and feebay.

just look at the back of the mag for ads now and then, 1 page vs upto 6 or so.

wad is dead, long live wd



hmmm from a legal point of view I have no idea, I don't know when Peter bought it he has accepted liablity for back orders, debts and all that.

AFAIK, WD is a new company, and WAD is defunct, dead, Peter has bought the stock, and WAD being wound up has gone and effectively dumped its obligations.

Whether the law will protect those who were waiting, a solicitor needs to be consulted. Perhaps the original owners are still liable, or perhaps there is some loophole as Peter has acquired some stock, effectively the missing orders belong to people, I don't know.

One could argue that the assets should not have been sold without all the people waiting for orders to either be given parts or refunded, as now effectively some of those assets belong to the people who ordered the goods.

Its all a bit of a mess......

[Greg.]

Hi John et al,

John, as ever I was blunt. My point is that if you have a claim against WAD for an unfulfilled order that's where it stops and starts. WD is a new company and unless I am mistaken, don't have an obligation for any defaults of WAD in their business dealings. AS this is WD's website, it's not fair to publish issues one might have with WAD which is not related particularly because such postings have the potential to negatively affect the excellent business and customer service WD offer.

I am not anywhere near close to the business hub of WD, nor was I to WAD but what I do know is Ian2 has posted a shed load of misinformation. WAD was a sister company of HFW and when under the control of Nick Lucas, he remained an employee of HFW. It was a result of his (probably) unexpected resignation from HFW that Noel had to sort the mess out. Those of you out there who are astute will also recognise that with Nick leaving WAD, 'Hi-Fi Collective' suddenly arrived on the DIY hi-fi scene (actually it didn't. It'd been running quietly for nearly a year before Nick left HFW). I think Noel took the option under the circumstances to sell off WAD to an independent company (Mark and Phil) although retain some association through the magazine. Remember that the DIY suppliments after M&P took over were very poor and there really was little development of kit availability if at all.

The sale to WD is now showing significant fruit and all the indicators are that they are being progressively effective and expansive in their business. I, and I'm sure others wish WD all success for the future!

Best wishes,

Greg

[Cobblers]

It is a shame about WAD's passing and any bad feeling that came from that.

Obviously WD is not the same company. Let's not tar them with the same brush.

WAD gave the world some very good affordable designs and lasted a reasonable amount of time with by all accounts good support. Consider the amount of 5 minute wonder fledgling companies out there in HiFi land.

WD brings products to hifi users that simply cannot be provided by traditional HiFi outlets because the demand would not be high enough in this aesthetic obsessed age.

Try and find an new Valve friendly enthusiast loudspeaker like the WD25 with modern high quality drivers and design.

Most Kit companies simply provide products that are cut down attempts at more expensive commercial products, without any real qualities to differentiate them from what you can get off the shelf.
Sadly These days the commercial product means better built and finished too, due to mass production in China.

This Kit company provides genuinely worthy and different products for true enthusiasts.

I am not trying to preach to the converted, just posted this for casual readers who might get a negative vibe from this thread.

[David Mccallum]

Well said that man,i've had some problems with my kit amp (see gremmlin post's) but the backup help this forum provides through it's members is first rate.It's also meant that iv'e learned more about how the thing work's,which was an aim of mine all along,The exellent sound quality these kit's offer is well worth the effort involved, in my opinion.

[petercom]

Again I feel the need to clear up a couple of points.

1) When we took over from WAD (and we didn't buy WAD, just the stock) we checked with the accountant that there were no items outstanding. We have no responsibility for WAD's finances, but wanted to make sure that we knew the full situation with WAD customers. To date we have only received one complaint re WAD.
2) Noel and I are committed to building up the kit market to how it used to be. There are many of us who wish to build a product of value and performance that is just not available commercially today. As modern hi-fi continues to get worse I feel sure the interest in our DIY projects will grow.
3) We are a growing company and have reached financial stability within a short space of time (nine months) for a start-up company. Despite what some might think there is plenty of life in the DIY community providing that it is served correctly.

[Baggy Trousers]

It seems to me, in a loosely defined sort of way, that there are three market sectors.

In the "old days", at the bottom was the radio/stereogram, then something perceived as better quality and more expensive like the Pye Black Box to the HiFi stuff (which was good to excellent) ranging from Pamphonic/Jason to Quad/Leak. The top end stuff, by definition, always has been expensive but you don't always get what you pay for. Those two reasons alone have ensured the continuation - admittedly, in varying degrees of health - of a DIY market.

Sadly, t'telly has been responsible for the demise of much of the home-made/scratch built (the terms before DIY arrived) scene. At one time almost everyone was at it and given the availability of plentiful and cheap war surplus supplies, schematics published regularly - the RCA Valve Handbook was good for these - and having regard to the fact that most of us were earning less than 500/year (a company director would be unlikely to earn more than 3,000), the cost saving (don't forget the 25% Purchase Tax on manufactured goods) was enormous. So was the fun in building the things. Does anyone remember the seduction of the ads in the Boys' Own Paper or the stuff that Gamages used to advertise? Oh well, never mind . .

We now live in an age of instant gratification and a level of affluence which allows anyone to buy anything. Regardless of that, the three market sectors remain; except now they're called Sony, Bose/B&O and Conrad Johnson/Krell.
There is room for the kit segment in the overall scheme of things and which, if addressed properly, can only expand. But now there is a factor in this equation not previously present and which almost certainly will have a fundamental effect thereon - the Chinese. That one baffles me.

I think it is fair to say that the principal reason for building a kit is to obtain something better than off the shelf and for a lot less money. Knowledge/fun usually are unexpected by-products flowing from the enterprise. But if you can purchase an oriental product of comparable quality, materially and sonically and at a dramatically reduced price, why bother to build? The answers to that are many and varied and there are others I shall keep to myself as I am totally out of the loop - I still tend to think the Japanese do little more than make knock-off Parker pens and Ronson lighters - a frighteningly myopic attitude.

A simplistic view, I grant you but in my characteristically circumlocutious manner, I am trying to say that in my view Peter has got it right and I wish him every success.

Richard.

Avenge yourself. Live long enough to be burden to your children.

[petercom]

Originally Posted by Baggy Trousers

But if you can purchase an oriental product of comparable quality, materially and sonically and at a dramatically reduced price, why bother to build?

Thanks for the kind comment and illumination.

With regard to the current influx of Chinese products we have looked at some of these as well as visited some of the manufacturers in China. They are interesting in that a few of the designs are quite capable and outperform much of the commercially made Western products at the same price. However they do not perform as well as those that you can make yourself in the majority of cases.

There's nothing clever about why Chinese products are relatively cheap. They concentrate on the outer build quality and skimp on the interior, especially with regard to the bits you can't see, like the transformers. I think it is fair to say that neither have the Chinese caught up with valve manufacturing quality either.

IMO the performance of a valve amplifier centres around the quality of transformers and valves. Without due deference being paid to the design and construction of both the sonic performance remains severely degraded. Only by concentrating on design and construction hand-in-hand can we hope to get the best out of the circuit. This is what we do at WD and make it affordable because you build it.

That's not to say the Chinese can't do it - Shanling is a shining example - but they have a way to go.