Garrard 401

[bob orbell]

You are correct Ali, that is a silly question, yes, I am wondering if it may be the idler tyre. BOB

[Shane]

Originally Posted by bob orbell

You are correct Ali, that is a silly question, yes, I am wondering if it may be the idler tyre. BOB

Not if it does it with the idler removed! My money's on some part of the plinth touching the motor.

[John Caswell]

Hi Bob
Try this - get a a small block of wood/matchbox about the same height as the platter face above the base plate, stand it on the baseplate carefully lower the stylus onto it then turn on the motor, with or without the idler.
If you are still getting the hum/noise then it is pretty certain the motor, or part of it, or cables, or something like is touch the baseplate.

John

[bob orbell]

Hi John, I did as you suggested and the noise is there, I have now made the internal wiring as not to touch anything, it has greatly improved, however, bringing the idler into contact with the motor pulley brings the noise back, do you think I need a new idler and or idler bearings. Thank's BOB

[John Caswell]

Hi Bob,
Excellent, but now the fun begins.
Is the noise there with the platter removed or only with the platter fitted?
If there with the platter removed, then something on the motor/intermediate pulley is still possibly touching the base plate.
If there with the platter fitted, then you need to look at the motor itself, the pulley bearings/thrust washers and possibly the main bearing, but this can be checked by removing the pulley, placing the stylus on the baseplate box/wood and then spinning the platter by hand.
If the main bearing is noisy that will require expert attention, but it may just be the bottom bearing worn out.
I had great success with one 401 using the replacement ball type kit, not the ceramic version but the phosphor bronze type. I think the ceramic ball type too hard, and the phosphor bronze ball or a ball bearing just about right.

John

[Greg.]

Hi Bob,

Sorry to read you are still struggling with this. As John has suggested, there could be several causes for the noise. Ones that I know of are an idler wheel that no longer is a perfect round, possibly with flat spots; a platter rim that has been damaged so it is no longer round such as if it has been dropped, causing a distortion to the rim; a warped brake disc that is interfering with the brake magnets and finally, the motor needing a serious inspection and service.

Regarding servicing the motor, the only real way to do this is to remove it and strip it right down, clean, lubricate and rebuild. It is not as difficult as you might think and well within your capability considering your engineering skills. Such a service is the only proper way to ensure proper lubrication and alignment of the bottom rotor bearing and is the better way to lubricate the upper bearing. I have done this twice, so know you could manage it easily.

If you would like, I can send you a couple of links to threads recording the process that would assist you (can't do it now because the links are saved on my PC and I'm writing this on the iPad). Let me know if you would like further detail.

Finally, as much as I respect John and regard him in very high esteem, I must advise against using after market spindle bearing conversions of any sort. John refers to the thrust pad bearing conversion using a phosphor bronze ball. I have actually seen Garrard spindle bearings stripped down that were converted to either the ceramic ball or phosphor bronze ball bearing options and both, after just over a years use showed that a distinct indentation had been worn into the bottom bearing face of the spindle, effectively making it perminentaly damaged. The wisdom is to always stick with the original bottom bearing and if the dome of the phosphor bronze insert is worn so that it has a flat on the top of the bearing face, carefully file and polish the flat back to reform an even dome. That is all that is required.

Regarding the two sintered bronze bearing sleeves (for a while, Garrard when cost cutting also fitted steel sleeves) fitted into the bearing housing, these can be replaced if necessary, although I don't know who might currently offer this service. Having said that, Dominic from Northwest Anologue states that having serviced very many 301/401's, he is yet to find a bearing where the sleeves were so worn, they were not serviceable.

I hope that helps.

Greg

[bob orbell]

Hi John, the noise is there with the platter removed and becomes much worse as I move the idler to contact the motor pulley, I am now in the process of making some fittings to hold the idler in a cylindrical grinding machine to regrind the idler tyre, if this works I will let you know. BOB

[bob orbell]

Hi Greg, thanks for the post and the PM's, just to let you know I have apologised to Dominic, back to the 401, I did remove the motor a few months ago and striped and lubed it, the bearing are fine in the motor and the motor pulley has been set using a clock gauge, I have also removed, cleaned and re-lubed the main bearing, the thrust pad does have a small flat, but doing John's test with idler removed and spinning the platter there is no problem, the lube I use is a mixture of light machine and molybdenum disulphide (anti scuffing paste), the idler is in the process of being reground, as I think that this is the culprit. BOB

[Ali Tait]

Greg, could you send me the servicing links you have please?

[Greg.]

Hi Ali,

I'll have a look tomorrow if the good lady gives me some time off from the decorating!