Supertweeter

[Paul Barker]

Yes, I read somewhere that the impedance is either 8 or 16ohms on the London's. Well I got my Megger Multifunction tester which I need for my day job, that has a very good callibrated low ohms meter as part of it's function. Surprise surprise the resistance of the foil is not the figure specified, ad Neal would say it's as country mile out, I don't recall now what it was but it's not in the same room as the assumption made by individuals publishing info about them on the web.

The transformer ratio can be established, but again it doesn't result in an impedance of expected value 8 or 16, whether you take the "published" ribbon resistance or the measured resistance.

At the end of the excercise I had to conclude, these things are tricky to build a crossover for.

I'm probably resigned to using them as a supertweeter and shoving the crossover a right up where we can't hear it.

I am no good at speakers, but I've now discovered at last that the only reason I haven't been happy with my amps at home over the period I've had the Ariels, was the Ariels. We can be so blind we look everywhere else for the fault. It was the very fact that L.O. made such a fuss on his write up about selecting the most perfect sounding midrange driver that sent me off on various tangents looking every where but to the Vifas. Yest my first impression on seeing them was that hard plastic material can't sound good! Nope it doesn't sound anything but hard plastic, and it takes a sledgehammer to get it moving.

[Martin213]

Peter,
Having heard what a huge difference supertweeters make to the overall sound,(Eggfest 2,Will Cowen take a bow )i suspect if you could keep the cost down WD supertweeters would sell like hot cakes.
Perhaps you could do an explanatory article in HFW also?

Paul,
I never did like the Ariels,i just assumed you did
They sounded too mid forward to me,almost 'shouty',and rather 'hi-fi' sounding too,hence the reason i feel you would benefit from spending some time with my 'speakers.

Kindest Regards

Martin

[Scottmoose]

I liked mine (V4), but stock, they were a bit bright for my taste. I rolled the HF off a little to compensate and I liked them much more.

[petercom]

Originally Posted by Paul Barker

At the end of the excercise I had to conclude, these things are tricky to build a crossover for.

I'm probably resigned to using them as a supertweeter and shoving the crossover a right up where we can't hear it.

I feel the real answer, Paul, to satisfy what I thought you were trying to achieve at the last Wdfest, is a three way.

If you like we can work on it together? PM me if you are interested.

[Darren D]

A three way, be banished forever, single point is the way surely?

Not from my limited experiance, I always feel single driver set-ups need a little help at the extremes.

3 Way, yes, now you've got me interested.

I'm only hankering after the perfect midrange I think, I would use my Quad 66's for the mids but they have their own difficulties. That Fostex sounds promising from what I've heard.

In my own speaker I use Fane Pop 50 12" which are superb, really tight and fast, go very low. These were original in my MS700 cabs which also housed Kelly Decca's for the tweeters, but I've changed them for a pair of Londons. The original London transformers wern't very inspiring but swapping them for the Decca trans changed everything and are now superb.
The orig MS700 mid unit was very laid back resulting in lots of top and bottom but little in the way of mids. Changed them for a pair of Warfdale 8" fill range with wizzers. Much, much, better but still not like the 66's for honey mids.

The search goes on....maybe those Fostex's?

[Paul Barker]

Thanks Peter,

at the moment I'm planning to just try James's open baffle full range with open baffle bass helper in series which improves the q of the full range to make it more appropriate for open baffle. There are much more appropriate full range drivers but more money and we havern't heard them.

We'll see what happens.

Paul

[petercom]

I would certainly go the full range route if you can live with the colorations - the best crossover is no crossover.

Let us know how you get on.

[Paul Barker]

Ok

[steve s]

Originally Posted by petercom

I would certainly go the full range route if you can live with the colorations - the best crossover is no crossover.

Let us know how you get on.

i feel this is not that correct.... there can be slight colourations, but no worse than many electrostatics i have heard, and much better than many box speakers .. i suspect your thinking on the lines of lowther accoustas ...and the like, which are way off the mark.. and very coloured

like any speaker you also get used to a sound.. even accousta's

thinking about it, we probably all think every one elses speakers are coloured when they sound different to our own..or what we are used to hearing..

Many box speakers show the colourations more in the bass, or just sound grey, from what i've heard...so far..
I don't hear many 2+ way speakers that sound correct, especially home made ones.. but they usually have a overall better sound than 'bought' ones..

the speaker/ amp combination is also very important

Darren. horns can do reasonably good bass and seamless treble.. much more natural than many tweeters and bass drivers can.. but good ones are very expensive..

the fostex's Will showed at eggy where very, very good but the bass was comprimised in tone, to get a good bass from them they would need a long horn.. then those speakers would be lost..as the magnets are not powerfull enough to drive a reasonable horn..that goes for all the fostex, from what i've seen,( i'll duck ).. but you gets what you pay for...

for single driver there's comprimises, size vs bass vs quality vs cost to mention a few of them..

and excuse my rather biased views...

cheers steve

[IslandPink]

Scott :

"I liked mine (V4), but stock, they were a bit bright for my taste. I rolled the HF off a little to compensate and I liked them much more."

I'll likely be using the Ariels for a while longer . Did you experiment a little with the tweeter cap and series resistance, and if so, what did you settle on ?
I think I have 4.7 + 0.33 u and 1R or perhaps 0.82R at the moment . Could try a some tweaking .

Mark