Classic Kits

[Shane]

That's OK, I wasn't taking you literally. I just wonder about the wisdom of resurrecting old designs if they don't perform as well as new ones. Of course it may be that the improvements in valve amps since the '50s are down to the components rather than the circuit designs, but somehow I doubt it!

[steve s]

I had a radford sta 15 a later model, it was/is the best 'bought' amp i've heard to date.. quite close to the se px4 amp i was using at the time

i've got /had quads 11, leaks tl12 and 25,

cheers steve

[Baggy Trousers]

Thank you Shane; you expressed very well the point I was trying to make but became ensnared in my own circumlocuitry.

I built a Williamson in 1954; at that time the non plus ultra of amplifiers. I remember it with affection although recollection of the cost of the Partridge transformers is less appealing. I think, with the exception of Radford, I have owned every significant make of british amplifier and whilst it is impossible to make a proper comparison over this distance in time, I am convinced that my WAD 6550 has a performance superior to to any of the vintage stuff I have owned and that in itself is sufficient reason for me to vote "No".

I see neither purpose nor future in the "Olde Worlde" concept. However, I did wonder if there might be some merit in the combination of the best of current topology with the visually unique classicism of the Quad 11. Nothing to do with replication, nostalgia or reinvention of the wheel.

[Scottmoose]

I dunno -Lynn Olson seems to find merit in many of the pre 1950s circuits:

'...a little research disclosed that PP amplifier design had essentially stagnated since the mid-Fifties; in fact, there was a period between the introduction of the Williamson in 1948 and the mid-Fifties when there were essentially no new designs at all! More surprisingly, the mainstream high-end industry was just endlessly recycling trivial variations of Fifties designs over the last thirty years. Almost all products in the mainstream high-end market used the same stale tubes - 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7, 6DJ8, EL84, EL34, KT88 - and the same stale circuits - Williamson, Dynaco, Acrosound, or Marantz derivatives (which are all very similar). No wonder SE-DHT was making a stir - it was thirty years overdue!'

OK, so he likes his SE-DHTs, but he does make a point.

[Baggy Trousers]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

I dunno -Lynn Olson seems to find merit in many of the pre 1950s circuits.

OK, so he likes his SE-DHTs, but he does make a point.

He does indeed. An interesting and valid observation.

The problem with being old, (or at least one of the many), is that, if you are lucky, you remember things that may be commonplace with your contemporaries but are beyond the experience of younger fellows. Sometimes this makes conversation difficult since many of them have not "been there, nor done that". This is not a position of superiority; just a case of them that lives longest sees most.

The reason for the reverence old fogeys like me have for Mr Williamson and other less well-remembered pioneers is because they released us from the constrictions and limitations of - guess what? SE-DHTs!

[Shane]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

I dunno -Lynn Olson seems to find merit in many of the pre 1950s circuits:

'...a little research disclosed that PP amplifier design had essentially stagnated since the mid-Fifties; in fact, there was a period between the introduction of the Williamson in 1948 and the mid-Fifties when there were essentially no new designs at all! More surprisingly, the mainstream high-end industry was just endlessly recycling trivial variations of Fifties designs over the last thirty years. Almost all products in the mainstream high-end market used the same stale tubes - 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7, 6DJ8, EL84, EL34, KT88 - and the same stale circuits - Williamson, Dynaco, Acrosound, or Marantz derivatives (which are all very similar). No wonder SE-DHT was making a stir - it was thirty years overdue!'

OK, so he likes his SE-DHTs, but he does make a point.

Contrast this with a quote from Petercom from another thread on this BB:

Originally Posted by Petercom

Bass sloppiness, hum, warmth etc. were all the aspects I expected to find when I returned to the valve fold after experiencing these features in the '60s. Much to my amazement the amplifier designs in the '90s have completely eradicated those characteristics.

Assuming Peter's ears are not deceiving him (and they haven't let me down before!), there seem to me to be three ways to go:

1) Build replicas of old amps, complete with old sound (why would you?)
2) Build modern sounding amps that look like old ones (what's the point?)
3) Build the best amps we know how, and make them look as good as we can.

I will be very interested to see what Peter's going to do with the Radford name!

[Scottmoose]

Many 'old' amps (Quad II anyone?) do indeed sound like that; I'd be the last to deny it, still less to deny Peter's hearing ability! My only point is that these results usually were not caused by the circuit design[s] per se, given that things in this respect haven't changed very much since the 1950s, bar a few tweaks. It's the modern components, and the proper implementation of these, particularly the better output transformers now more widely available, that appear to be providing the major differences. Look at all those dodgy Chinese valve amps kicking around at present, which suffer from exactly the same problems as the 'classic' valve amps did. Nothing much seems wrong with their circuit topology as a rule; it's the poor components that provide the crippling blows to their performance.

I can't see the point in copying the appearence of the old amps though, even if it was legal. The circuits might be very similar on occasion, but that's no reason to house them in the old cases. I might make an exception for the Quad II though, just because I like the finish... ;-)

[pre65]

Hi-i have a pair of Quads and i do like them a lot.That is not to say they are perfect and no doubt improvements could be made.
having very hot valves too close to transformers is one.
considering they were meant to be "hidden away" the styling is very good,although i quite like the look of hammond transformer as well.
i have seen DIY amps on the net with a similar style to the Quad and to me they look OK.
My personal favourite style is the metal box with the wood surround,like the "shadows" amp and preamp.

Philip