The Agony of Surface Noise

[John7]

You can't beat a good vacuum based record cleaning machine with Disc Doctor fluid. I use a Moth, which is noisy, but you get what you pay for. Pay more for a Loricraft and get less noise!

John

[JerryT]

Originally Posted by Primalsea

. I find that cleaning often just lifts the dirt up which allows thew stylus dig it out of the grooves. I usuall find that after about 3 noisy plays after a good clean much of the noise is reduced.

What you are describing is the effect of inadequate cleaning. I've been there and blamed all sorts of things for the problems.

I'm not familiar with the clearaudio product but my experience with the moth rcm suggests that a good liquid clean followed by a thorough vacuum, to remove the fluid and the grot that is suspended in it, can significantly reduce the irritation of surface noise. If the cleaning or vacuuming isn't thorough enough then you get the symptoms that you are describing. After cleaning I put the records into a new antistatic liner to keep them clean.

When played, any record that shows the odd bit of dust from the air gets brushed with a Decca brush which removes the dust and more importantly the static charge. I've noticed that records which have some static charge (i.e. raise the hairs on your arms before you play them) are the ones that have the most irritating surface noise! Point discharge? Dust attracted from the air? Who knows!

The better the overload capability of the phono preamp the less chance to
drive it into clipping and exaggerate the effect.

Hope this helps.


Jerry

[Stratmangler]

Is the cartridge the Ortofon 510 ?
It's been a while since I last saw one.

Chris

[Paul Barker]

I find that after a record clean many records become much quieter.

Also find that some cartridges are more surface noisy. The Denon103 doesn't seem to portray surface noise, whether that is because it is rolled off compared to a high end cartridge is another matter.

The Hyphonic (ultra hi end) was hellish noisy, both in picking up rfi and in transmitting surface noise. I think the dvxx1l was reasonably quiet visavis surface noise but was also low output so also more susceptible to rfi.

I think my record cleaner is a Keith Monks, really horrible to use and noisey, I'm too busy at the moment to use it.

Of playing the favourite records frequently ensures the stylus ploughs a furrow through the grime to keep groove relatively quiet.

It's always nice to have the reassurance of a reminder that it isn't a digital source.

[Greg.]

Just a pointer on second hand record selling outlets. Many of them don't employ a proper record cleaner and simply wipe the LP's over with a cloth soaked in lighter fuel. This is common practice with second hand vinyl dealers. It produces a very clean almost shiny looking finish and will also mask the presence of scratches. The punter is coned into thinking he's getting a good as new disc. Lighter fuel probably doesn't do the track quality any good either. The whole thing is a deception that sucks the punter in. In my experience you get better results buying second hand from car boots (once again avoiding the booting dealers with their inflated prices and duff cleaning) or charity shops and then cleaning yourself. There are several second hand vinyl dealers in Bristol and there is only one I trust and he'll always accept a return if I'm not happy with the quality.

Best wishes,

Greg

[Paul Barker]

Yes well the Nina Simone one I bought from an ebay viniy dealer with loads of very positive feedback hadn't even had a wipe, I got a cartridge of fluff off every track and it sounds terrible.

He described it as VERY GOOD.

I won my complaint and got £4 off the price, 'cause I still wanted it but didn't class it's condition as Very Good, I said it was poor.

I did thank him for refunding £4.

He then asked me to show my apreciation by leaving good feedback. NOT ON YOUR NELLY, what carry on the desception that the guy is wanderful? No way he is very deserving of good feedback because he describes something as very god that is poor. He's very lucky I'm not leaving bad feedback.

I suppose I should be glad he didn;t poor lighter fluid on the record at least.

[Cobblers]

There's an old guy who occasionally works in a local charity shop who ruins some of the records by "cleaning" them. Very annoying, I have to look at the records to check he hasn't done his special "cleaning" job to the records I might buy.

[Primalsea]

Yes it's a 510 on my deck.

I have played around with the VTA and the noise has reduced by quite a bit. The cartridge base was parallel with the record surface, now I have it a little bit tail up. Probably just had too coarse adjustments before.

I was obviously a bit vauge before. I meant that hand cleaning just seems to lift the dirt. The Clearaudio cleaner the record shop uses is very good. The shop will even play the record for me after the clean to see if it's acceptable. However I'm quite lucky only living a few minutes down the road from them.

[Dave_The_Vinyl_Junkie]

Just bumping this thread up again...

I got a call from a friend this morning who's been trying the L'Art Du Son cleaning fluid which Loricraft sell.

He's been trying it out on some fairly manky CFP pressings (Classics for Pleasure) and says that each and every one, after cleaning, has been virtually silent. Previously, both of us have been using isopropyl-based stuff and we've found that whilst it improves surface noise, quite a lot of the time some ticks and pops still hang around - I'd put this down to groove damage.

I'm going to try it for myself, and will report back the results here.

One bottle makes 5 litres, which is apparently good for about 500 LP's (use distilled water to dilute it). At £28 per bottle, that sounds like good value to me.

[Greg.]

Hi Dave,

Yep, James and I also use this fluid and we recon it's good value and an effective cleaner.

Best wishes,

Greg