Pre2 relay input switching PCB

[Greg.]

Hi Peter,

In pricipal I second Ruperts post. The only thing I'd add is that with those of us who now have some building experience, we may be looking at Pre 3 when it arrives and asking ourselves, how can that circuit be adapted into my Pre 2 chassis? In other words, realistically, unless you make it impossible, I'm sure many of us will be looking at you Pre 3 kit and will be considering how with hard wiring, component orientation, personal component choice etc, how we can make adaptions if we think your new circuit is a viable upgrade. This is not intended to be detrimental to your business but simply exposing what undoubtedly many current Pre 2 owners will consider in the first instant. That being the case, accommodating that response in some way might be very lucrative to WD.

Best wishes,

Greg

[Rupert]

Absolutly Greg, glad I'm not alone in thinking this way. I would have thought there would be a lot of business/sales if this were possible. Clearly the hard core DIYers will find a way to fit just about anything into anything, but this probably wouldn't benefit WD as they will just buy in the bits and pieces they need from elsewhere and probably a bit cheaper too. If proper upgrade kits were available, PCBs and components etc., this would be a different matter, and would appeal to the more general bulk of owners, and those who don't have time to chase around after all the bits and pieces required.

Rupert

[KTea88]

Great Idea, the thought had come to me when I saw that the WD88 had a relay switching.
I will buy the kit when it becomes available, as I am not a scratch builder this is the ideal for me.
bring it on Peter!

The NAIS TQ2 relay.

I was chatting to a friend last night about relays, as I'd remembered he had used them in the past. In his typically blunt way, he said:
"Frame relays just move the problem from the front to the back panel."
"Reed relays (vacuum sealed), can't corrode but you can't have any AC on the switching voltage."

As to some of the later posts here, I have some sympathy with Peter - he is bringing out new products with new ideas but has inherited us lot. We want to try the new ideas without having to pay for the new product!

[david counter]

Originally Posted by Lord.

As to some of the later posts here, I have some sympathy with Peter - he is bringing out new products with new ideas but has inherited us lot. We want to try the new ideas without having to pay for the new product!

I do tend to agree with you I was begining to feel quite sorry for Peter

[NickW]

I agree with the last two posts - I think we should leave it to Peter to outline his plans in more detail rather than speculating any further.....

NickW

[Shane]

Don't forget he put the poll on here to gauge reaction. The more reaction he gets, the better he'll be able to make the decision.

[Greg.]

Peter is certainly not a naive man and I know went into a new DIY hi-fi business venture with his eyes wide open. Remember he has years of experience within the hi-fi industry both as a manufacturer, director and within it's associated journalism. He has also always remained a 'hands on' designer. If WD continues to develop in a similar way to how WAD (in the good days) did in association with HFW, DIY designs will continue to be published in the magazine. Such designs started appearing in the DIY supplement back at the beginning of 1993. Some were developed into kits and of those, some were short lived offerings and others remained available for considerable time. WAD never produced cabinet kits for their speakers, so the DIYer was always expected to sort that part out themselves anyway. Also since 1993, some readers have bought and built full kits, others have adapted and converted what they already had and some more have scratch built based on the published circuits alone.

What I said above will already have been considered by Peter. There might well be someone right now scratch building a WD88VA from what has been published in the magazines. I think however it's a fairly safe gamble that these sort of builders will be the lesser in number and the main interest will come from customers who want a full proper kit.

I explained above what will be going through the minds of experienced builders who already own WAD kit. We need to realise there is an established association between the ashes of WAD and the new growth of WD and surely that is deliberate. The same style chassis', the similar logo/emblem and of course our own continued presence here is all part of a new venture designed to slide as seamlessly as possible into what was once successful in WAD. We're talking Nick Lucas days here with maybe 20+ kits on offer.

My suggestion here is that Peter might want to capitalise on that and offer products that could be readily adapted for such WAD kit owners and attract some business from them as well as from new buyers. I have a set of well tweaked Pre II units that I'm thoroughly satisfied with. I doubt I'd be in the market for the Pre 3 kit, but if there are significant aspects of that kit which could be advantageously adapted into my Pre II chassis', I might be that additional customer that wasn't originally counted on.

Best wishes,

Greg

[petercom]

Thanks for the plaudits, Greg.

However I feel I might be going to disappoint you re the Pre2. IMO it is asking for trouble to compromise a design to make it backwards compatible. I have tried doing it in the past, on the basis of requests for 'upgrading' an earlier design, and it is more trouble than it is worth. In addition the 'new' design becomes compromised as a result of trying to make it suitable for the upgraders.

Whilst I have every sympathy with original kit builders who want to improve their kit, I feel that we at WD and HFW have to look forward and bring out new designs with improved performance. Otherwise we might as well continue making the 'Nick Lucas 20+' designs you had before. If we can't advance the state of the art then there's no point in doing new kits.

For example I spent yestereday having a very fruitful discussion at our transformer manufacturer on the construction and design of all of our transformers. As I have said elsewhere we are now vacuum impregnating all our transformers in hard resin and overspecifiying the construction so as to increase bandwidth and reduce noise. And we are also spending longer on the circuit design, as well as improving chassis design and layout, cabling, signal routing and so forth, to make the WD products better than ever.

The valves we are currently working with in Pre3 will not fit vertically in the Pre2 case. I am not happy about horizontal mounting in that case, either, because it is a mechanical bodge and heat flow is compromised. I would not be surprised if one or two Pre2 builders find a way round this once we publish the circuit details, and we'll make the components, including output transformers, available to those who do. But my honest opinion is that, once you've fiddled around trying to make things fit, you'd be better off buying a Pre3 anyway.

Having said that, if we get enough votes to make the Pre2 relay switching PCB worth running a production batch, I'll gladly do that as it doesn't look too time consuming.

[KennyK]

This news sounds better than any of us hoped, I imagine.

FWIW, I love the sound of my own PREII and would want to be able to upgrade. however, I will probably look at building a Pre3 at some point in the future as well as, funds allowing of course.

I'm also keen to learn more about the improved MC stepups. Presumably there will be a PHONO3 as well to match the PRE3?