Peter Belt

[Richard]

Welcome Charlie,

I understand what you say but wonder why you need to say it.

I find the music is always better on a sunny day and with a relaxed mind. If I'm rushing or under any stress or tension I do not relax and enjoy it to the same degree although sometimes it helps - chicken and egg, egg and chicken kind of thing.

Perhaps mechanical devices, alterations, or rituals allow others to relax. A friend with OCD (very common) has similar tendencies, everything has a reason and must be just so and then he is happy - for a moment.

[colin.hepburn]

I still have some of belts black foil triangles of which you stuck two pointing at each other on the a mains plug
which did not do anything however this is a subject that will never be taken seriously by most The best way to improve your sound in my view is to use the same twin and earth cable your house is wired with for your mains leads to your amps and all other sources and listening late at night when you mains power is at its cleanest well works for me the owner of an original hunts CD EDGE Green PEN

[pre65]

I saw May Belt (Peters wife) as a new member the other day.

Anyway, I try to be open minded but find what Peter Belt purveys to be a load of codswallop.

I did try some of his suggestions a (very) long time ago and had no joy with any of them.

Perhaps I'm such a happy and harmonious bunny that I don't need them ?

[pre65]

I have a terribly suspicious mind.

Perhaps Charlie is not who we might think he is.

[colin.hepburn]

Originally Posted by pre65

I must be getting old, I swear I saw Mary Belt (Peters wife) as a new member the other day, but I can't see her in the members list.


Perhaps I'm such a happy and harmonious bunny that I don't need them ?

I have found it’s good to have peter belts bits and bobs mixed in with some other vintage audio products like little bottles of stylus cleaned alignment protractors and green pens and the likes placed on your rack
For when you invite a friend back from the pub and they see your system with all the thing sitting on the rack then ask what’s that thing for
it gives them the impression you are series about you hi fi this alone will direct you guest into thinking bloody hell it does sound brilliant so maybe peter belts things do work after all moral of this story is it’s all in the mind

[A Stuart]

"Your Interest (you must fill this in)
Tweaking
Who you are in Hi Fi (you must fill this in)
something like I'm a music lover"

Virtually all of us on this forum are renegades who bucked the trend which maintained that transistors (ICs even better), feedback (the more complicated the better) and minute percentage distortion figures were the way forward. So we are not innately belligerent towards deviant thoughts.

So perhaps you would clear the air for the most cynical amongst us and declare whether you have any direct or indirect connection with, or vested interest in PWB products or similar.

Secondly, I got lost reading the above . Are you suggesting that a randomly chosen paper clip would have the same effect, albeit psychological but still real, on a listener as the "genuine" safety pin, as long as he/she believed it was the appropriate item to wear?

Alastair

Addressed, obviously, I hope, to Charlie Poole.

Originally Posted by Richard

"I understand what you say but wonder why you need to say it."

Hi Richard,

I wonder why you would wonder why I needed to respond to the criticisms against Belt, and the allegations of charlatanism. If the same allegations and same misinformation was being spread about World Designs on another forum.... you wouldn't feel any need to respond? When I see the reputation of an honest man, who helms one of the most honest companies in audio, is being trashed, on the basis of heresay and prejudice, it's natural to want to respond to that. Especially when, Beltism, as a science, is a hobby of mine.

I assure you, fwiw, I do not have "OCD". Defending a subject you know well and feel strongly about, is not necessarily evidence of a mental defect. But I do have a friend who also tends to be way off in his personal judgements of others, due to a misguided understanding of human nature. It's apparently a very common occurrence.

Your reference to "mechanical devices, alterations, rituals" really betrays a difference in philosophical approaches towards audio. Those who do not tweak and just swap components if an improvement is desired, tend to frame "tweaking" in that way. Especially those who believe they can't do better, or can't appreciate better than what they have (and so, don't want to go any further with their sound). The term "rituals" implies that simply believing an activity you engage in will change the sound, when nothing is actually happening. If so, what's the difference between that, and an activity that really does change the sound?

I'm not and never have been interested in so-called "rituals" that don't change the sound. But on the other hand.... were they to find out what's really going on here, most people would be amazed at what does. As much as I know about this, I am still learning more, every day. (Example: Today I learned that speaker grills have a Beltist component to them. And that reticulated foam beats panty hose....).

Although I'm sure that music is better on a sunny day with a relaxed mind, my reference to tension speaks of a different kind of tension, that most are simply not consciously aware of. For most of us, what we're not aware of does not exist. But when you become aware of it by its absence.... it starts to become more evident.

I've never tried the black triangles. But I have used similar concepts on mains plugs to great effect. I would bet that if I treated yours similarly, you would eventually hear differences. I am constantly treating people's systems using Belt's concepts or products, and these are not audiophiles by any stretch. If they can hear improvements, I don't see why you wouldn't. Sometimes it depends on how effective you are, and sometimes on how patient you are with it.

Originally Posted by colin.hepburn

however this is a subject that will never be taken seriously by most.

I know. And that's what makes the subject both sad and amazing at the same time, for me. For most, the subject is either met with indifference or apathy, or it is met with outrage, ridicule and or contempt. Most will never even attempt to find out if there's anything behind it, before drawing their simple conclusions. Some will attempt a "trick" or two, perhaps twenty years ago, and not succeed for x reason. Then draw conclusive opinions about the entire phenomenon from that. Which usually just reinforce the prejudices they already had against the subject. But for a few, just a few, they will research it long enough to realize there's something to it.

That's the camp I belong to.

Actually, I'm in an even smaller group than that. I'm in the group that eventually went beyond just trying what Peter Belt has proposed as products or ideas, and continued or extended the research on the "science" he discovered. Coming up with new and supposedly "impossible" ways of changing one's perception of sound. You know, there's no turning back once you're at that level of understanding. There's no "I think this works, but I can't prove it. I haven't double blind tested it enough". Of course, it's nothing new, that all concepts ahead of their time require a gestation period. That a quarter of a century barely makes a dent is more a statement on how much humans have progressed as a society, since the days of Gallileo and Darwin.

The best way to improve your sound in my view is to use the same twin and earth cable your house is wired with for your mains leads to your amps and all other sources and listening late at night when you mains power is at its cleanest

I don't believe there is any one "best" way to improve your sound, since there are literally millions. But I have a blog about my experiences with the science of Beltism, in which I wrote an article recently, all about swapping the mains cable of my Arcam CD player. The conclusion of the article, is that it was crucial to NOT change the original manufacturer's cable. Doing so destroyed all of the good qualities of this player. Years ago, I put together a detachable mains cable as a gift for a friend to install on back of his CD player. It was made of thick top grade house wiring purchased from a renovation centre, connected with a massive plug. I later insisted on its removal from the system, and apologized repeatedly for destroying his once musical sound!

In another article on the same blog, I write about a DIY speaker cable recipe I came up with. There, I compared several different types of wire against each other, for use as speaker cable. This gave me an idea of what different types of wire sound like. One of them included the type of wire you're talking about, internal grounded "Romex" type house wiring (aka twin and earth). I liked it at first, but before long, I concluded it was just too aggressive in the mids. However, I fully concur that late at night when the mains is cleanest, you get the best sound.

well works for me the owner of an original hunts CD EDGE Green PEN

Cool pen. It takes me back to the 80's, when I used to debate the benefits of green pens on audio forums with people who still had trouble believing there were differences in wires and cables. I had the popular CD Stoplight pen. Except I had no idea at the time, that Peter Belt was actually the originator of the concept of using color on CD edges (By the time the green pens came out, PWB Electronics already had several types of coloured edge markers). Belt in fact ditched the idea of green, and had moved on to, I believe, violet. More importantly, he was the only one advocating the real principle behind the pen. What he showed, to those who listened, anyway, is that it works equally well on LP's as it does on cassettes. Many of those who once heard results from it, wrote off the green pen as a fad from the 80's, on the faulty belief that it does not work as advertised. And it doesn't. It's just that it's manufacturer didn't understand how it works either!

[Richard]

Good grief. I'll let you get on with it Charlie just don't advertise and don't upset people. Thanks.

[bob orbell]

Thank's for the comments on PWB Charlie, to start, I do not condem the mans products or his thinking, I simply saw the old mag. and started a new thread to see just what others think or thought about the subject and it's starting to work. If you have had success from Belt's ideas, then so be it, but Im sure there are members hear who question his ideas. I myself, can tell no difference between standard mains cable's and fancy expensive one's for example, so the chance of a saftey pin in my lapel, treated or otherwise, or curtains hooked up at the corner is a non starter, even if I sit down and try to convince myself that there is a change in sound. BOB