Upgrading WAD Phono 2 to WD Phono 3

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Greg.

Because of it's relevance, I've transposed John Caswell's reply from the 'Phono3 new build hum' thread.

Well it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Resistor noise is proportional to value and to current flow. It is also more important to reduce noise in the first stages to raise the signal level over the noise floor going forward. To that end you're looking at the first 2 stages' anode resistors as already said.

[NealG]

Hi Greg, I use the 5751's and find them very good with low noise. For upgrades did you not put a CCS on the first stage? Fuzzy memory but I thought I made one for you yonks ago...for me this made a large and positive improvement...regarding Oscons, my preference is to avoid them like the plague in analogue ccts especially if in the signal path. For me they never come on song, they are best used in digital decoupling applications...YMMV though.

[colin.hepburn]

Well this is the old argument again on capacitors like black gate vs. Oscon so it is down to you personal choose the one which you prefer

It is correct that the many of the Oscon cap are favored on digital but are also recommended by well know valve amp designers like Morgan Jones in his valve book he recommends the oscon in cathode bypass and so do many on this forum in the case of the WD phono so please don’t just dismiss the Oscon caps I also recommend you get this book

Bottom lines with component changes is to trust your own ears to tell you if you like or not we all hear differences you like or dislike now I like the Oscon cap better than the black gate standards in my WAD phono 2

[NealG]

Originally Posted by colin.hepburn

Well this is the old argument again on capacitors like black gate vs. Oscon so it is down to you personal choose the one which you prefer

It is correct that the many of the Oscon cap are favored on digital but are also recommended by well know valve amp designers like Morgan Jones in his valve book he recommends the oscon in cathode bypass and so do many on this forum in the case of the WD phono so please don’t just dismiss the Oscon caps I also recommend you get this book

Bottom lines with component changes is to trust your own ears to tell you if you like or not we all hear differences you like or dislike now I like the Oscon cap better than the black gate standards in my WAD phono 2

Whoah there Colin, I only expressed my opinion I didnt say you are wrong If you like them fine...I don't, I don't think they work in this application, in fact I prefer this cct without any bypass cap. I've tried them in this cct and a number of others previously, including the KLPP1, the 5881 & PSE, 300B and some I've forgotten about. I don't care if Morgan Jones uses them or not, I do have his book BTW...I agree with you last point whole heartedly.

[colin.hepburn]

Originally Posted by NealG

Whoah there Colin, I only expressed my opinion I didn't say you are wrong If you like them fine...I don't, I don't think they work in this application, in fact I prefer this cct without any bypass cap. I've tried them in this cct and a number of others previously, including the KLPP1, the 5881 & PSE, 300B and some I've forgotten about. I don't care if Morgan Jones uses them or not, I do have his book BTW...I agree with you last point whole heartedly.

Neal I wasn’t having a go at you just because you don’t like Oscan Caps I was just trying to say that caps are a subject that most of us will disagree on surely not would you

[Greg.]

Originally Posted by NealG

Hi Greg, I use the 5751's and find them very good with low noise. For upgrades did you not put a CCS on the first stage? Fuzzy memory but I thought I made one for you yonks ago...for me this made a large and positive improvement...regarding Oscons, my preference is to avoid them like the plague in analogue ccts especially if in the signal path. For me they never come on song, they are best used in digital decoupling applications...YMMV though.

Hi Neal,

Thank you. Yes I did have a CCS daughter board from you but I didn't have much success with it. On relection, I may well have connected it up incorrectly at the time. I know I ripped it out shortly afterwards thinking it had little to offer and having had no luck adjusting (variable resitor) it to make any difference. Maybe that was because I wired it in incorrectly which I now, in hindsight suspect is the case. I'll have the board somewhere but I'll need to search as it's probably buried in my chaotic garage which needs a serious clearout.

If you are able to republish the circuit, that would be helpful. I think the original thread has now been lost owing to the various changes to the BB with different owners over the years.

I intend to experiment with the Oscon caps for cathode bias on the 1st stage. To be honest, I don't expect this to work for me considering the current very transparent performance of my Phono 2, but as it is well advocated by Richard and Colin, it would be churlish of me not to try it out.

To put everything in perspective, I've recently spent time on some very fine tuning to my TT and my vinyl system is sounding superb. It completely knocks my Naim CD3 (heavily tweaked) digital source out of the equation. The Naim is not worth considering further as it's well outside of the reproduction competence of my TT. In consequense, I'm looking to maximise the performance stage of my TT/Phono. I will retain my CDP just because I have a considerable collection of CD's. However, they'll get rarely played. When I switch on my system, all I want to do is listen to my vinyl. Oh, and the unused Sqeezebox Touch I bought will shortly be up for sale

[NealG]

Hi Greg, if the adjustments didnt change the BIAS voltage then something was wrong.

I think this is the original thread:

http://www.world-designs.co.uk/forum...ghlight=DN2540

2006!

I think the links are broken to the cct diagrams so I'll have to have a search for them or open up my Phono to take a look. The battery BIAS mentioned in the thread was not needed in the end just a resistor.

Glad you have your vinyl front end sorted out, been going going through a bit of a revival myself with it, spurred on by my SP10 repairs!

[Greg.]

I finally got around to fitting the 220 uF Oscon caps for 1st stage cathode bias on my WAD Phono II. They have made little difference to the sound apart from a 'glassy edged' presentation to the mid-range for about an hour. They've now settled down. I've had none of the bad sound experiences others have posted about this mod. Having settled, I don't find any significant improvement to sound other than the increase in gain. This does make them a keeper (unless I revisit Neal's CCS mod) because with the reduced noise floor using 5751's and the further reduction with these Oscons, my overall noise floor is much improved. I like it! Thanks to all who contributed.

Now I'm off to consider appropriate locations for resistor changes using bulk foils. Subject to what has already been written above, all location suggestions welcome! Thanks.

[colin.hepburn]

Greg
Good to hear you like what the Oscon caps are doing I am still using them as well in my WD phono 2 never had any desire to remove them yet

[NealG]

With the CCS Greg one thing I found that helped it even more was Richards added decoupling cap and resistor located in PhonoII along with a .1uF bypass cap. Seemed to improve the bass line and added a bit of clarity to the midrange. I've not tried the cathode bypass caps with the CCS...