Paypal need to be shut down totally!!

[Les Reed]

The major problem when selling via Paypal seems to occur when low-life buyers inform their credit card company that they have not received an item that they have paid for. This can also occur with any credit card purchase and not just with Paypal. Apparently there are cases where the buyer has left positive feedback regarding the item received and then informed their card company of non-receipt at a later date!! The card company then credit their customer and demand repayment of the money form the merchant (Paypal). Paypal apparently are powerless to prevent or slow down this process, so simply transfer the debt back to the seller in a very short time period.

All of this is compounded because of the virtual monopoly situation of the auction site owning the payment processor. Ebay makes it very difficult to use an alternative payment method by virtue of the statements they give regarding payment security and the £500 compensation offered when Paypal is used. I believe this situation should be reported to the OFT.

[Darren D]

Hi Philip,

I knew you were going to ask that, so I've just been searching for a current example I saw yesterday.

It has now however gone, but the theme is, list a load of items you haven't got but as BIN items with realistic prices.
I'm not sure if the account is hijacked, they don't on the surface seem to be.
They accept Paypal, which is a new one.
Feedback is always 100%

The only way I can seem to spot them is they have an item listed that is obviously listed in another auction, so one of them doesn't own it.
It'll be the BIN that's the fraud

I had a seller to show you, but seems Ebay have removed him.
The next one I find I'll put it here

[pre65]

Hi-it was always the LOW prices that alerted me to scams in the past,so this will be a problem !

Its a shame because e-bay can be SO useful (has been to me) in sourcing ANYTHING and now it if falling into the hands of the criminals.


Philip

[pre65]

Originally Posted by Les Reed

All of this is compounded because of the virtual monopoly situation of the auction site owning the payment processor. Ebay makes it very difficult to use an alternative payment method by virtue of the statements they give regarding payment security and the £500 compensation offered when Paypal is used. I believe this situation should be reported to the OFT.

Hi-the benefit of pay pal is that we can pay,and be paid by conventional credit cards without having to enroll to each of the credit cards systems.

Philip

[The Shadow]

Hi
I've been watching this thread with interest and having seen the bad experiences related here one can only come to the conclusion that the eBay/Paypal problem is yet another example of entropy.

Entropy states that structured process inevitably deteriorates into chaos and disorder over a period of time. Therefore there is absolutely nothing we can do about it except abandon the whole thing at some point and find a different way to buy and sell the things we are interested in.

As rational human beings we expect to be able to defeat this process by imposing tighter and tighter controls and band aids but since we are part of the problem there are going to be a substantial minority of arseholes who will go out of their way to circuvent any controls and restore the chaos.

The population of the earth has doubled since WW2 therefore by entropy there will obviously be twice as many arseholes about as there were then. Even this is a conservative figure as entropy has also affected attitudes to law, order, decency, respect for one another, common courtesy and common sense.

Therefore one might reasonably expect the number of arseholes and miscreants to have increased on an exponential curve rather than a simple linear projection.

Recent figures suggest that 80% of all email is spam so how long before it becomes unusable as a communications medium and another way has to be found?

Old fashioned telephony is now an intrusion rather than a pleasure due to the number of telephone scams, premium rate numbers, silent calls and general unwanted **** coming down the wires. 70% of the phone calls to my landline are unsolicited garbage.

Tim Berners-Lee worries for the future of the World Wide Web but what is interesting is that he seems surprised by what it has become. It was inevitable.

The simple fact of the matter is that any change for the good brought about by rational decent humans will inevitably be destroyed by those whose minds are set on sowing disorder.

The best thing about this hobby is that we as a group of enthusiasts are of no interest at present to the human entropy factors in our midsts. We are a tiny section of a niche market.

The only entropic activity we have to worry about is at the atomic level as our thermionic devices succumb to the processes that are a part of valve audio.

But venture out there onto eBay and the shock can be devastating not only to the bank balance but also to the peace of mind of individuals as the sense of anger and injustice experienced turns inwards and accelerates the entropic activity within the body and the psyche.

I think a bit more use of the sales and wants section on here and the old style want ads in the local papers for other stuff might slow down the processes.

Steve (the armchair philosopher)

[Ianm2]

Steve, you can put a stop to junk telephone and mail by

tel pref.
mail pref.

you can also contact your local mail office to stop junk mail there.

also, saynoto0845.com

If I had my way, I would probably criminalise junk mail, failing that, make it that you have to opt in to receive it, and by default, you are excluded, rather than the other way around.

Surely for the environments sake, paper, print, oil, pollution, that's an easy way to do things? but they would rather pick on us, taking a pleasure flight, or a derseved holiday, to make cash out of.


prefer for rant, if you are easily offended, look away now

by law, all companies who operate 0845 no's, which you pay them to call them!!!, HAVE to have a regular no., but are not required to make it public. And anyone who answers the phone and says otherwise is either lying or they haven't on purpose been told.

They can do things about this sort of thing, troulbe is, they won't, or don't want to, like I said, people can do these things for years, and the political machinery is ineffective, works so slow that no one does anything about it until years later.

But if they want to victimise average decent person, well that's another thing altogether.

we are the most spied on, the most intruded, the most oppressed, the most taxed, the most controlled, the most anti common sense politically correct, ie too much in favour of childrens,( teachers can be victims of alleged assual, subjected to humiliating prying investigations, all on a whim of a child's say so, and have dna taken, regardless of innocence, upon which that is kept, and not destroyed) criminals, womens( ie married for months and you can claim the house and half the cash, as tho she can't support herself-what did she do b4?, look at mrs mcartney, no contibution to his wealth, rich in herself, but what right has she to 20--30 million of his? can't she live without it?), minorities rights( positive discrimination is white persons being discriminated against, bcos of colour, that in itself is wrong by their rules) whilst riding roughshod over normal decent peoples, ie, totally one sided, civilised country in the world, with no accountability at the top, no bill of rights, and no contract to the electorate, upon which you can kick the bstards out, just look at the corruption in the police, murdering without accountability, the honours, the politicians, lying( look at blunkett, he lied once, lost his cabinet role( once should be disqualification of public service, only to be awarded £15, 000 for compensation, then reinstated a few months later, lied again, lost his position, all after considerable pressure right HONOURABLE? why is this man still an MP??? a proven liar on 2 occasions???), sending the country to an illegal war( where more people have been killed than in saddams whole reign, and some commentators acknowledge it would have been better with him still in charge) which puts us in danger, then makes the excuse we need protection and controls us, pries into our affairs more and more intrusively, and then fines us for non cooperation, to get more cash for their servants, whilst actually having the gall to decide whether or not to hold inquiries we the people who they serve demand of our servants, we are the masters, not they.

time all this changed.

the things that are going wrong are getting so bad, I am now seriously giving thought to emigrating, apart from weather, crowded roads, house prices, etc.

and claiming obscene amounts, and we only vote 5 years, after which we have long forgot, called for convenience by the present govt., ( how conflicting is that?) and its past time for all the bad things to change. I know what mr average would like, return to common sense values, with normal people making decisions for themselves, instead of jobsworth non entities, who base decisions upon targets, figures and political correct diktats, who can't think for themselves, but no one is interested. as it doesn't affect all at once, that's why nothing gets done.

rant over....

As it happens, I believe all this computer society, all the electronic info, telephone centres, impersonal company access, along with more and more advertising, leading to more and more desire, will lead eventually to a mass breakdown, as normal people scarecly can keep up with the demands and pressure upon them as it is, for proof, just look at a stressed mother.
There is too much in society, its only going to get worse.

One reason I am returning to simpler, personal ways of doing things, and doing away with my payment cards, direct debits, etc. They can see everything I buy, what time, where, how much I spend, where i have been, and of course, they do sell these habits on, I don't trust or believe these people one inch, and its no ones business but mine. Not long from now, I will all but disappear commercially. If we all did it, my, my, the panic it would cause them

what do you think loyalty cards are for?

[The Shadow]

Hi Ian

I can see where you're coming from on all this But actually I am quite optmistic about the future. BTW I am on the mail and telephone preference service but it does not stop stuff from overseas call centres.

I was a part of all that ****; targets, political correctness, dealing with chavs and their even worse offspring, frustration at the fact that however much I railed screamed and kicked off, nothing was going to get done.

From what Paul B has written in the past, it would be safe to assume that he as a fellow public servant was in the same position as I was.

The only thing that kicking up got us was a breakdown. Now strange things happen after something like that hits you. You reassess what is important to you and you do something that gets you control over your life. Paul started his own business. I became a supply teacher.

I now couldn' t give a monkey's cuss about targets, stress or anything else. I turn up, do the best job I can and go home. I look for the quality option in just about everything I do. By that I mean what gives me the best quality of life not whether it costs a lot of money.

I'm a lot wiser and a bloody lot poorer than I was having given up a 38K salary for the uncertain world of the freelance. But I am happier now than I ever was in the past.

Their world of lying, scheming, backbiting, social climbing and corruption is now consigned to the dustbin of history.

What makes me smile is that little do these idiots realise that their increasingly slimy and pathetic attempts to hang on to what they perceive as power and to control the thinking of the populace as they see it are doomed to the same processes as everything else. I will all come crashing down around their ears and the harder they try to shore it up, the bigger will be the bang when it does go.

However much these fools know about me, my buying habits or anything else I couldn't care less. Especially as they are storing it all digitally and using Windows to boot. The stuff I really want them to know and guard properly (bank credit cards etc) is secure on UNIX where it belongs. If they want to tempt me with loans to clear my debts, and any other garbage they can as all I will bo is bin it.

If the govt introduces road pricing, speed monitoring, journey habit surveillance, I'll simply get rid of the car. They might not let me on the bus with my amps and speakers for EggFests but I'll get there somehow.

The rest of the froth from those grubby little shysters that spam and put out silent calls they can shove up as far up their collective arses as it will go for all I care.

The data they collect will soon become so diverse, wide-ranging and all pervading that it will become to all intents and purposes completely useless. Total information overload in fact. That is when the fun will start as they completely disappear up their own backsides trying to crunch this data.

I have cut up all my cards but one, use cash for everyday transactions and will only use my card for Farnell's etc or unexpected things. Buying resistors and capacitors should give them plenty to chew on. My intent is to become as invisible as possible to the buggers. I don't even have a mobile phone any more.

The more they survey and pry, the more useless becomes their data, the more overloaded their computer systems become and the closer to catastrophic meltdown they get.

I hope I live long enough to witness it.

Steve

[Cobblers]

Do you think all this big brother stuff is effective?

We have a prat who lives in our street with a multitude of non taxed vehicles, which he has been using for months.

So much for not having to look at the discs to know when people are offending, he drives around in them and never gets seems to get caught!

As for not using cards, I wouldn't be too surprised to see physical or liquid money all but disappear in my lifetime, with those who have menial jobs who cannot obtain a bank account for whatever reason obtaining a basic form of payment card.

[Les Reed]

Originally Posted by pre65

Hi-the benefit of pay pal is that we can pay,and be paid by conventional credit cards without having to enroll to each of the credit cards systems.

Philip

I wasn't commenting on the benefit of Paypal, which is obvious, merely that the common ownership creates a monopoly situation. There are other on-line payment services eg. Bidpay, that apparently can have automatic integration to Ebay auctions, but no one will use this because Ebay only offers the £500 protection if Paypal is used.

[Darren D]

So you think you are safe with Paypal as a buyer...!!

I have just bought a new printer off ebay, described as new and fully tested.
It turns out to be a customer return item and I suspect all his goods are.

It arrived and it doesn't work, so I informed the seller.

Response was send it back at my expense. We argued the matter over and he wouldn't budge.
Why should I pay to send it back?

So I filed a complaint to Paypal, he says he has offered a refund if I send it back.

Paypal closed the case, I don't have an address to send it back to, the seller wont reply to emails and Paypal have shut the door.

Looks as if we are not safe as buyers or sellers.
Paypal is easy to get around as a dishonest seller by the look of it.

Ian, I agree, Paypal need to be shut down, I loose money whichever way I use them.

Totally p&^% off
Darren