Large speakers (as in large)

[smithy]

For Black Stuart,the Audiom 15VX are Sensitivity 93 ,Fs 17.5,6.5 ohms in this
kit used in a 123 litre D,Appolito designed Onken bass reflex.

[Black Stuart]

Smithy,
thanks for that - you don't say how low they go? I'm not after HUGE unnatural bass but you are absolutely right - a really big woofer is effortless.

But it has to be fast to match the Heils and I think paper cones can't be beat for this.

The Onkyn approach was suggested to me last year - any chance of some pics, now that really would be great.

Black Stuart

[smithy]

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h258/cityopticians/

Picture here of Onken cabinet hopefully.

[Black Stuart]

Nope can't get it Smithy.

I saw the price of the Axioms - wow!

I'm looking at Pioneer A38GU40-52F-Q 15" woofers. They are cheap approx $46 but they go low 20hZ, are 96dB but 8 Ohm, this will probably be lower at their operating point (thanks Petercom).

What I need Smithy is something quite light, these are only 13lb. As Jeannantais said he wanted to change his 12" woofers in the ESS speakers but was warned off. because his woofers were light and with paper cones, they integrated with his Heils and that is what I'm looking to do with my Heils.

I really don't want to go down the powerful pro woofer road - I don't think they will marry with the Heils at all.

If I was to use the Onken design it will allow me to think about woofers that don't go so low and this opens up the field a little.

Black Stuart

[smithy]

I will try again.

Smithy, click 'Quote' on this post to see how it's done.

[smithy]

Thanks LORD scuse the sweet wrapper,as you can see (shock horror)castors on the stand to make them more wife friendly.As you can see even after 6 years I havent got round to finishing them,driven by NAIM CD2,Avondaled 42.5 and RATA NAP250.I have a pair of KLS8 and a KEL34 so I am not completely flat earth.

[Baggy Trousers]

Surprised that this thread did not continue a little longer. I don't wish to provide an unatural extension but there is an important consideration which did not surface in the discussion and I crave the collective indulgence to introduce it now.

Many years ago I lived in Paris and drove a 750 Renault. The woman who lived in the flat above owned a Facel Vega HK500. One day we were talking about the relative merits of cars and I asked her why she drove this monstrous thing with a 5-litre engine when I could achieve a satisfactory (and similar, given the restrictions of the day) level of performance from my 750cc conveyance.

"Dahlinks" she said, - she looked and sounded like one of the Gabor sisters - "I know your leetle voiturette can go 100kph, and stop, and go round the corners, and do all those things which my grande luxe car can do. What is important is not what it can do but the way it does it. If I give you the choice, which car would you take from Lyon to Paris without the stopping?" French roads, remember, some 15 years after the war.

The audio parallels are obvious. The Bose Wave thingy may have an excellent performance specification on paper, perhaps comparable (well, sort of) with a good 12/15" in a ca.300l cabinet, however, whilst the sound may be sophisticatedly generated, it is fake and the deception, attended by increasing levels of irritation, becomes obvious very quickly.

But if it is a dreary, wet Sunday and you have a mind to catch up on some serious listening for a few hours, would you really want the ten-speed, 15,000rpm, two-stroke model with 5" woofer?

OK, so the examples are a little extreme perhaps but I think the point is none the less valid for that. There really is no substitute for long legs. If you have the room to accommodate something whose essential purpose is to be listened to rather than looked at, take the HK500 equivalent.

Isn't compromise a bugger?

[petercom]

Good story, and well told. I think the point has been raised elsewhere on this forum, i.e. what is the point of straining amplifiers and the laws of physics to try and make small drive units move lots of air when they clearly are not designed to do that?

Very often the point of modern technological advance is not to make things better but to make them more saleable. Small speakers are a case in point. This has been going on since the late '70s.

At World Designs we want to make products that perform better. Hopefully, as a result, they will sell but they are not suitable, unfortunately, for the mass market. Never mind, if the owners appreciate them then that makes us happy.

[Shane]

I'd forgotten about this thread, but I've now given it an unqualified yes vote.

Most people can't accomodate huge speakers in their living rooms (least of all me), but at the same time, most people can't accomodate a Rolls Royce Phantom in the garage or a 118 Wallypower moored at the bottom of the garden. That doesn't mean that these things shouldn't be out there for those who want to dream.

I don't know how much of WDs resources would be consumed by the development of a real monster, but I think it would make a huge statement about what they are capable of achieving.

The company will stuggle to survive if they are only known to the members of this forum and the readership of HiFi World. Since there seems to be a revival of interest in big speakers at the moment, this could be a good way to put the company in front of a wider audience.