Technics SL 1200/1210 - Any Good?

[cressy]

having built one of each type of tt i feel that the problems to be had with each all have similar underlying causes. the best plinth ive ult was the birch ply and perspex laminate i had on the belt drive. the best sound (on a very very good day was the lp12 goldring idler and the best overall on a scale of happieness and contentment is the direct drive. the belt drive was good, didnt do anything bad but didnt do anything brilliantly. the idler was great but was let down by viration control issues probably a design problem rather than anything inherent, and the technics based dd is almost as brilliant as the idler wasnt most of the time but could be (made sense in my head) but is alot easier to live with. it should be noted that these observations were all made with the same arm and cart so the major variable was gone. of course its horses for courses and id still like a 401 if i had the money but the bargins to be had for dds are there for the taking. i personally think that 1200s and 1210s are overpriced as my 3110 technics was superb as standard. i base that on the fact that ive has a 1200 and a 1210 on loan from a dj friend of mine for a while and am not convinced. the article in hifi world is perfectly accurate in saying that its the arm as the 1210 has an sme 3009 on it and it mkes the 1200 look like 300 quids worth of ****! that my two pwnce worth anyway. regards ant

[spikeyfaz]

From memory I think my Lenco idler cost about £40.00. Then another £40.00 for a solid wooden plinth and say about £10.00 on feet (squash balls in stainless steel egg-cups). The Rega arm was about £100.00 although I do have another arm (diy unipivot) which cost about a fiver in parts. A bearing kit for the Lenco spindle was about another tenner.

So, not an outrageous amount of money to get it to a reasonable state but it's the finishing that's starting to niggle. F'rinstance I have 4 x Lenco platters and all of them have a slight warp in them to some degree. Getting an arm to fit my Lenco is another hassle as the effective length limits what can go on without hacking holes in the plinth.

I do enjoy a challenge but right now having to get another amp (Super-T not so super as it went phutt) means it would be nice to have at least one bit of hifi kit that I can rely on. Hello Technics...

[Ali Tait]

HeeHee! Guess I may have started something!!
Can we PLEASE get some good humour back into this forum? It used to be such a relaxed place....
Regards,Ali

[pre65]

Hi-one or two members seem to feel the need to convince all the rest of us that their view is best.

I'm all for sharing experiences but "each to their own" surely ?

Let get back to some good humoured banter.


Philip

[Greg.]

I do not intend to respond to Stuarts latest post. Readers can work it out for themselves. I'm happy to simply state that I don't agree with Stuart and remain an advocate of ID turntables above DD's because I've compared and listened. I own a good DD platter and listened to those owned by others. I feel no need to qualify my statement.

I don't actually see this becoming confrontational. As ever it is everyone to their own preference and I'll not critisize anothers choice. No need to lighten up here. It remains light

My personal view remains that ID TT's can be bought and set up cheaply and Rega arms are very good value for money obtained cheaply and then bettered if further DIY'd. Certainly HFW agrees although I don't now trust their judgement as I once did. They are however correct IMHO on this latest occasion.

[freefallrob]

If you don't like DIY or can't do DIY and don't have shed loads of money to spend then the SL1210mk2 is a great buy. It sounds good most of the time straight out of the box ( oh with a cartridge etc fitted, the AT95e suits it well as do the Goldrings etc ).

It has no real issues playing at the correct speed, which alot of other drive systems DO have, it's amazing being able to listen to a piano on LP and not thinking 'ouch' that sustained note......

The standard arm with the right cart is capable of decent results ( i'm not claiming it's the best ) and as others have mentioned you can try other arms with interesting results as I have done in the past years.

[spikeyfaz]

This should prove an interesting comparison review to DP's review: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9718

[Black Stuart]

Firstly,
I don't find my request that Greg tells us the bottom line on his Idler to be confrontational but informative.

Suddenly we don't talk money anymore, I find that strange.

Clive - it has been mentioned so often on this forum, that the first thing to do with any idler is to throw away the plinth as they all seriously impaired what the idler drives were capable of - that is simply not so with virtually all DDs and certainly is'nt nec. with my KD990. JamesD has said by going skeletal with the Kennies it will alter the sound, not make it better.

BTW Clive I hav'nt heard of anyone buying a DD that went kaput, except Noel Keywood when he resurrected his own DDs when he attempted to do a demolition job on DDs in HFW.

I have already said how I intend to mount my 990, it may mean a touch more detail but because the original plinth is made of a very appropriate material already, that's not what I am looking for - it's the aesthetics I'm doing this for, anything audio is just a bonus.

Someone else tells us what they paid for a Garrard 7 years ago, that has nothing to do with the reality of buying a Garrard today. Would someone like to sell me some Syl W/TS RP 6SN7s at prices of 7 years ago - I'll take the lot.

Others tell us that they enjoyed putting together their Idlers - absolutely, there are thousands of ways of wasting time (the most precious commodity of all), creating a TT that gives pleasure and satisfaction is not one of them but there are others who enjoy something that plays 'out of the box'.

There is more than an innuendo here that that is somehow wrong - why?

As Rob has said there are all kinds of speed problems with other systems but with most DDs this is a none issue.

If newbies are to be encouraged to visit and participate on this forum then they need the unvarnished truth about so many things. I just wish I had had the facts about so many things that would have saved a me a lot of time and money to expend on other areas of my life - hi-fi is only one them.

So it is highly relevant to those thinking about getting into vinyl to know what the score is on each type of vinyl playback system - what are the benefits and drawbacks to each - how much money is required to reach a high quality sound.

And no one commmented on my ratio of CDP to vinyl. I now know from personal experience that CDP can sound very good indeed and that's from experimenting with wiring of all kinds. When I have either modded my CDP or bought a new one, I think it's safe to say now that digital harshness can be a thing of the past. Look at the reviews for Guido Tent's CDPs.

If this forum is not to become some kind of closed shop then there must be far more discussion of CDPs and DACs because that is what young people are into overwhelmingly. I personally don't have any problems in being part of a small minority that uses predominately vinyl and would love to see a mushrooming of young bloods on the forums discussing NOS DACS - I find the whole thing fascinating.

Likewise class D amps and in the next few months there should be some exciting input on this front.

The breadboarders have created their own forum and this is an excellant idea. It certainly is'nt for newbies - it would frighten them to death. It is a specialist forum and fulfills it's purpose admirably.

It would be nice to see this forum broaden out in all directions. It should be, that CD/DAC would contribute the lions share, not to mention those that use a computer as source.

It is precisely these young ones who are entering the vinyl world in great numbers - do we want to welcome them or not? Don't they deserve to know the bottom line re. money and time spent to acheive a certain level - or not?

It really is this simple.

[Anthony Docrkill]

Hi,

I have a mod 1210 in my system and I work in a day job in radio where we have four 1200 in two studios for various DJ’s to use.

[For Hi-Fi use in a totally stock state a 1200 is good but a bit grey sounding]

I would avoid second hand decks. They get a hard old life from DJs – they call them wheels of steel for a reason. Trust me a Rega type belt drive would last about a 24 hours in the hands of a DJ. So in short a second hand 1200 unless you really knew its history would not be the best place to start for a Hi-Fi set up.

The arm is not a weakness as such. Look at KAB’s fluid damper - it works. Also look at rewiring the arm – cheap and makes it much better,

The other problem is that power supply is not up to scratch. Technics use only a 470uf cap before the regulators. First thing is to use the KAB strobe disabler - it gets rid of a think layer of grunge while the deck is playing music. In the long term look at stand alone PSU. (Cheap to make.)

Also some of the higher 1200 models come with slip mats. Useless junks for Hi-Fi - you need the think rubber mat of the standard 1200.

The great thing about the 1200 is that you can upgrade it at your own speed and it won't cost a bomb either way you go. It’s a joy to use and they really are solid decks. Could be the last deck you buy.

Cheers,
Anthony

[richardcooper2k]

do you think it would it be a good thing or a bad thing if people use more than one forum for information/discussion/posting/etc ?