A kit similar to the original WAD 300B Stereo PP?

[petercom]

Originally Posted by Black Stuart

The fact that Peter C has many years in hi-fi can actually work against him, if he does'nt have an open-ended way of looking at things.

So whatever WD does make sure that it is built up to a standard - not down to price - if they, WD don't understand good aesthetics - admit it and bring in those that do. In fact it would be a good idea to put box shapes/colours to a panel of women - ask them. The standard ranges are OK if you are a single, woman hating, chain smoking anorak. I look at much of what the Italians/Chinese are doing and their presentation is excellent.

Don't use the minimum wattage resistors, the cheapest caps, the cheapest crappiest wiring. There are certain areas where WD can let the buyer choose whether they like PIOs/polyprops, their own choice of wiring etc.

Black Stuart

A number of good points there Stuart.

Firstly it is the fact that I AM open-minded that has enabled me to make a career in journalism and in commercial hi-fi. It is an unfortunate fact that commercial demands reduce the ability to experiment with design purely for the sake of sound quality.

Design on sound quality terms alone is often compromised by cosmetic issues, however. This is particularly true of modern loudspeakers, but I can think of many amplifiers which suffer in the same way because of layout considerations.

I am excited by World Designs because it gives us the opportunity to explore designs which would not see the light of day if commercially produced OR would be too expensive for most buyers to consider.

Therefore if we take looks into account as much as technical excellence there will always be a trade off in terms of expense. I have visited and talked at length to the owner of Shanling, for example, and seen the substantial cost of his method of manufacture. Having said that there is no reason why the simplest of chassis cannot be designed to look good.

In terms of components we will use whichever components sound 'correct' within a sensible limit of cost. This is because, as the cost escalates, the law of diminishing returns cuts in. We will, however, point out in our fine tuning articles, which will be included in every design, which components can be 'upgraded' and what effect this will have on sound quality.

It has already been pointed out to me that most of you have your own personal preferences for high end components, so it is pointless designing using one particular set of 'name' components as it will just upset the rest of you. Far better to design with readily available components of good quality that meet the sound quality objectives and allow you all to put the finishing touches by substituting with your own predilections.

None of this applies to the basic components over which the kit builder will have little choice. Transformers, drive units and other mechanical basics will be chosen because they meet the quality standards of the designer. There will be no cost-cutting for the sake of meeting a price.

From what little I have been able to glean from the sales of WAD kits in the past there is a big difference in sales quantity between different price stages. This mirrors exactly the commercial world and is hardly surpising. We therefore aim to offer a range of kits where the quality is to a higher standard than could be achieved from buying a ready made item at anywhere near the price and/or have unique design features which are not usually commercially available. One has to bear in mind that, as the price increases and sales quantities fall, the cost will escalate for the higher end designs such as a 300B PP or SE. We will address this as best we can, and your polls results will help so please make sure you vote with your feet as much as your minds!

[Ianm2]

Serious priced 300b variants personally put me off, i don't want to spend an arm and a leg on replacement valves, just my opinion.

Who will be desinging Peter, yourself for speakers, or will you work in partnership with Noel? Who will be doing the amps/transformers?

Please give us some brief idea of the steps to fruition if you can.

[Paul Barker]

Noone is saying you have to buy perforated pressed steel one Ian. Budget 300b's sound perfectly good.

I think Peter will publicise as little or as much about who does what as he deems fit in his own timing. He's shown us that he is prepared to talk, but we shouldn't push him away by asking overbearing questions.

[RobHolt]

I've been happily using my WADKat6550/Pre/phono for ages now and been very satisfied with it. Just before the gloom set in over at WAD I had arranged with Mark to borrow and try the new 300B amp - sadly that never happened

I'd love to see the original 300B PP amp back in some form as it would be perfect for people like myself - happy with a good medium power PP but wanting a real jump in performance. The old WAD amp has a great reputation so would seem the logical place to start. I wouldn't expect it to be cheap but as a kit there would surely be a big saving over the best commercial designs.

[Black Stuart]

Hi Peter,
you are actually doing what no one at WAD did in the past - really using this cheap marketing tool - the b/b - great.

The idea of using seperate enclosures for power and signal seems to me to be a simple and cost effective way to meet the demands for different valve/power models, ie. just one model of each.

The power enclosure can be made of steel, make it big enough to take the largest txs for the most powerful amps. These can be displayed and at the same time sheilded from the signal enclosure, which could be made from aluminium or copper. Made big enough to take the largest caps but as it will contain no iron does'nt have to be the 'standard' size or shape. As it will be one size fits all, this must be a better economic proposition.

I'm sure I can speak for many b/boarders - we have friends who love the sound of valve amps/pre-amps BUT no way will they get involved in kit building and no way will they pay the price of commercial amps bought through shops - because they are way too expensive - offer the choice of pre-built or kit and your market grows enormously. Language is no longer a problem as you supply the units ready built. MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT NO PRE-BUILT GETS SENT OUT, THAT IS NOT SPOT ON. You will, or should make more profit from the finished article than from the kits but this is the beauty - one market does'nt interfere with or destroy the other - in fact someone may first buy a ready built amp and then decide to try their hand at a kit. If as I have suggested in the past re. WAD, the WD site is in other languages as well ie. German/French/Spanish - this could hugely expand the market and with ready built amps there will be no language problem re. build/problems. To expand the non-UK side of the market, it should be no problem for you with all your contacts to be able to set up a network of repair specialists (in major markets) so that foreign buyers will not have the expensive job of sendint an amp back to the UK for repair, should this be nec.

In ready built amps use good quality wiring etc. and maybe for kits supply none at all - just suggestions on what works well. Also pictures are worth a thousand words and for kit builders who are'nt very good at reading diagrams - absolutely invaluable.

Black Stuart

Originally Posted by petercom (in the 300B SE thread!)

We are working on the design of a top of the range 300B that will 'improve' upon the original 300B PP that Greg and others favour. As they say 'Watch this space' in Hi-Fi World DIY Supplement around summer this year.

Will be published with a full range of tweaks and as many upgrade options as is feasible to manage.

Good news Peter!

Now what do you mean by 'improve'?
More components, less components, different components, prettier, beefier?

Thanks in advance.

[petercom]

I am not going to be drawn at this stage - you'll have to wait for the article! I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by Black Stuart

The fact that Peter C has many years in hi-fi can actually work against him, if he does'nt have an open-ended way of looking at things.

Black Stuart

Anyone doubting PJC's open-mindedness need only visit their nearest Richer Sounds, look at the forests of tall, narrow, deep floor-standers with tiny bass units in the front with cones made from pure unobtanium, and ask themselves what commercial speaker-designer in his right mind would launch something like the WD25T? It's wide, its 2-way, it's got a dirty great paper bass unit in the front, it sticks two fingers up at current fashion, and it's reviving an idea that barely raised a flicker of interest 35 years ago. Oh yes, it should also sound brilliant if the 25A is anything to go by...
I can see him rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of being free of the constraints of the mass-market!

[slawts]

25 watts sounds a bit meagre especially when Icon do a more powerful 300B integrated that sounded very good at the HiFi show. I don't think it would drive my Monitor Audio Studio 20's.

I have a VTL ST85 running EL34's. Would the 300B's be an improvement?

[Cobblers]

Originally Posted by slawts

25 watts sounds a bit meagre especially when Icon do a more powerful 300B integrated that sounded very good at the HiFi show. I don't think it would drive my Monitor Audio Studio 20's.

I have a VTL ST85 running EL34's. Would the 300B's be an improvement?

25 watts would easily drive your Studio 20's, it depends on the size of the room they are driving.

It would be a very different animal to your VTL amp, as you would expect.
The 300b amp would add sweetness but cannot take away or detract from metal cone colourations inherent in your speakers.

As good as they are (and they are very good in some respects) I would look to change the speakers first.
IMHO WD25a's would wipe the floor with them, as they do with practically every speaker i've heard.