Confused member! Do I want a sugden a21?! Do I want some WD25s?

[gooseganda]

Hi guys, I haven't been on here for a while. I have a couple of questions as that itch is coming back, and I need to scratch it! Plus I am confused, which is pretty normal really. Ok my system lacks synergy, life etc so...

1) I am looking at the new world-design speaker kits with a view to building some in the near future. However, I am also considering in the future havng a play around with a Sugden A21, as I have always wanted to. So the question arises - how well do you think the A21 would cope with the WD speakers? Are the speakers sensitive enough?

2) Somewhat related to 1) and somewhat confused... After listening to a friend of mines WAD 300B SE monos with some old (massive) klipsch horns - which he is selling by the way (think they were Heresey IIs, well looked after) and doing an amp swap with my KT88 PP Ella. The Ella just didn't have that extra. My friend described it "...as if the door was not completely open". I have to agree, I have always been waiting for the Ella just to let go and sing - but alas not yet! The 300Bs sounded awesome, I could swear Ms Cassidy was somewhere in the room and the door was definitely open! But I fear that they may not be suited to some of my more electronic music (i have a VERY eclectic tatse - as Greg may remember) and a bit of lsitening confirmed this (although t could be speaker specific). Hence I am considering in the future the A21 or maybe a class A transistor kit - like the JLH 15W? The swap made me really consider just how good the Ella is... as I spent a bomb on specing it up with black gates etc - we've all been there - and the 300Bs blitzed it at vocals and clarity.

So after all this rambling what do I want? Well I want to have that feeling again, clarity, hair tingling, the artist infront of me, none fatiguing, fluid, transparent yet powerful sound and all the other imeasurable describey things that hifi mags (except hifi world) harp on about. I want to get five out of five on the Matt-pleasure-ometer. I want to walk away grinning like a guy who just figured out how to make lemon mirangue pie out of two shoelaces and half a scoop of ice cream. But above all I want to be wrapped up in the music, I want to be nearly putting the kettle on but never quite leaving the sofa. And I want a simple system (I will probably keep my Cyrus CD6 source). So an amp and speakers in the £0 - £2000 range new/kit/SH Where should I go? Are the Sugden A21 and WD25s the answer to my prayers?! What should I do?!! Is lemon mirangue pie really that good? Is it even spelt that way? Answers on a postcard!

It is clear that I am confused and have lost my musical mojo. Thank you in advance from a somewhat elusive forum member.

(Oh yeah my speakers, are wilmslow audio vogues (modded))

[Paul Barker]

I listened to an a21 in a shop (Zen of Hull) anc ompared it to a parallel push pull el34 amp, the el34 amp had it beat in all dimensions. I'd not buy an a21, ymmv.

[NickG]

I compaired a a21 several years ago to my kit6550, I kept the 6550 and the a21 went back to the shop. The a21 was nice but didn't do anything the PP amp couldn't, and ran out of power way before the 6550.

[gooseganda]

That is interesting & thank you both for the feedback.
Any thoughts on the WD speakers? How do they sound? I wish I could dem a pair!! Is there a comparable commercial £££ pair?

[david counter]

does the Ella work with your speakers, what don't you get from the combination, I have some modified Vogues which I have used with a 15 watt Kel 84 and a 10 watt Glasshouse 300bse fairly well, the Ella should be a good amp and quite capable of sounding nice with a good sound stage and plenty of detail

[petercom]

I think others have put things quite well but I'll try to sum it all up.

You can't achieve the same sound as a 300B SE with a transistor amplifier. In fact you can't achieve the same sound as a well designed valve amplifier with any transistor amplifier. The Sugden A21 is probably the best of breed, but it still cannot handle the comparison.

There is something magical about a 300B when it's on song. At WD Towers we are investigating that at the moment. A good 300B SE is difficult to beat.

However if you want more dynamic range through 'normal' speakers, i.e. not horns, you could look at PP. The forthcoming WD88VA, which will use KT88s in PP to achieve 40W, may well fit the bill. IMO the KT88 has a lot of the midband magic of the 300B, though its character is different, and we're really enjoying tweaking this particular design for the magazine.

As for demo on the WD25A or 25T you are welcome to visit sunny Cambridgeshire where we can demonstrate them on PP and SE - just give us a ring first. Or, if you are going to the Phono Shoot Out, they will be there too.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by petercom

I think others have put things quite well but I'll try to sum it all up.

You can't achieve the same sound as a 300B SE with a transistor amplifier. In fact you can't achieve the same sound as a well designed valve amplifier with any transistor amplifier. The Sugden A21 is probably the best of breed, but it still cannot handle the comparison.

There is something magical about a 300B when it's on song. At WD Towers we are investigating that at the moment. A good 300B SE is difficult to beat.

However if you want more dynamic range through 'normal' speakers, i.e. not horns, you could look at PP. The forthcoming WD88VA, which will use KT88s in PP to achieve 40W, may well fit the bill. IMO the KT88 has a lot of the midband magic of the 300B, though its character is different, and we're really enjoying tweaking this particular design for the magazine.

As for demo on the WD25A or 25T you are welcome to visit sunny Cambridgeshire where we can demonstrate them on PP and SE - just give us a ring first. Or, if you are going to the Phono Shoot Out, they will be there too.

Peter

Which day do you plan to attend with this kit?

I've dropped out because I can't stay over. It's actually Saturday I can't do. There is a chance I could get there on Sunday. Unless everything changes again, of couse, possible in my household.

[gooseganda]

Ah that sounds encouraging. Thank you all, I guess I just needed a little bit of a sanity check - transistors? What was I thinking!
I have been trying to pin down the lack in my system that I wrote of and I would say it is just too restrained for my likeing, it feels like the amp is working really hard but the sound is just not quite free enough or big enough. I am hoping that a future move to the WD25s will aleviate this.
I will look forward to hearing more of the WD88VA. Will this be a non-feedback design? And any ideas of ££ for the various kit options?
On a slight tangent how different are the xl and standard tweeters on the WD kits? Have WD ever thought of playing with a ribbon tweeter?

[NealG]

Will this be a non-feedback design?

I doubt it with KT88 and 40W output.

[petercom]

Originally Posted by Brian

Peter

Which day do you plan to attend with this kit?

I've dropped out because I can't stay over. It's actually Saturday I can't do. There is a chance I could get there on Sunday. Unless everything changes again, of couse, possible in my household.

That's a shame because I can only make Saturday.