The difference between budget and better

[bikerhifinut]

I temporarily packed the Ortofon Quintet black (NWA retipped and serviced) away in preparation for a possible sale and house move. But in the meantime I am keeping a stripped down system to listen to while we wait for the interminable process to grind on.
So in went the Audio Technica AT95E. Now I dont know if its faulty, it does have a nearly new stylus in, but the sound quality is, frankly, not great and it has a habit of collecting muck on the stylus and the sound distorts really badly.
I got a new stylus last year when the old one showed this trait. The new one is as bad.
this is a budget cartridge that gets good write ups but I am wondering if Mines faulty in some way as the sound is brash and ragged even with a new cleaned tip. It really does suffer badly from end of side distortion, and I HAVE set the geometry up as well as I can, the quintet doesnt do it so I reckon my technique is sound.
Have I just got so used to the refinement of a good MC? It does beg the question. I don't remember the G1042 being like this, apart from being a bit more susceptible to surface noise it tracked really well. oh yes thats the other thing, the ortofon really does push the record noise floor way down.
Arm is an Incognito rewired RB600 in good working nick.
Comments anyone?

A.

[pre65]

What phono stage are you using for MM ?

[bikerhifinut]

Don't get distracted by the disc stage Philip, it's the cartridge pure and simple. I can tell the difference between mistracking and a mismatch.
For the record I'm using the MM stage in my Rega Cursa3 which is a good workmanlike item. The WD kit is still out on loan until we actually move. And the AT95E did exactly the same with that last year.
I've just had a look under the magnifying glass at the stylus assembly and i reckon its doing the thing those At's are prone to and the cantilever looked bent. In fact what happens is they can twist in their rubber suspensions which knocks the azimuth all to cock. That would explain the rough sound and the other stuff. All the same I dont reckon much to this sample of an At95E I think I have got a monday morning job.

A.

[Richard]

Well they certainly can go as you describe Andy. In the early 80's I had a V15/3 collapse over to the side and more recently a couple of years ago a Denon 160 did the same. I sent them both back and the distributors gave me new ones no problem. As you say at first sight I thought they were bent but knew I hadn't done it and they agreed so something must let go in the suspension inside. You probably are used to better quality sound as well which won't be helping the aural result

[bikerhifinut]

Originally Posted by Richard

Well they certainly can go as you describe Andy. In the early 80's I had a V15/3 collapse over to the side and more recently a couple of years ago a Denon 160 did the same. I sent them both back and the distributors gave me new ones no problem. As you say at first sight I thought they were bent but knew I hadn't done it and they agreed so something must let go in the suspension inside. You probably are used to better quality sound as well which won't be helping the aural result

yes Richard, I think you have nailed it.
It was Dom Harper who put me wise on this frailty of the At95E. The suspension is apparently similar to that of an MC in that it has a tie wire and the little V shaped pole pieces emulate the way an Mc works except of course its waggling a pair of magnets in a couple of coils rather than vice versa. Anyway this construct makes the At95E susceptible to torsional forces (I think thats what it is) which twist the cantilever and knock the azimuth out of kilter and compound the effect by having the field magnet array also out of line. The Cure is to carefully push the cantilever back with a toothpick on the wee magnets until its back in line.
It works for about a side........................

The thing that surprised me was just how much difference i found going back to a budget MM, albeit one thats maybe not best healthy.
What got me thinking about all this was there are those who say that theres no advantage going beyond a good budget cartridge and I completely understand the laws of diminishing returns, but there does seem to be a point where improving on a basic turntable and cartridge gets benefits that are readily appreiciated. I am thinking stuff like lowered surface noise, lower distortion and better tracking due to stylus profiles that trace the groove better.
Anyway, I think I need to find me a not too expensive but listenable budget cartridge while the fancy gear is stored. I have read good things about the Rega carbon, which as far as I can tell is an At91 rebadged. I am not minded to get a goldring stylus for the 1042 as they are pushing £200 and even the 1006 stylus is 100+, I think one of the ortofon 2M series might be better if i was spending that sort of brass.
I wondered if any other regulars here have had the same experience as I have.

Andy.

[colin.hepburn]

Hi Andy
I use a 2M Blue in my upgraded rega RB250 and like it more over my 1042 if cost is in question you could go for the 2m red and upgrade to the blue stylus later.
as the stylus are inter changeable with the 2m body as far as the red and blue go but not sure if the other bronze and black colures are thou

[bikerhifinut]

as far as I am aware the 2m range styli are all interchangeable.
There may be internal wiring improvements on the bronze and black but the styli mounts are the same.
I rate Ortofons I must admit.

[bikerhifinut]

a quick check, the blue and red use copper wire coils, the bronze and black have silverplated copper wire coils.
What audible difference that makes I can only speculate, but the stylus assemblies are the same.

A.

[bikerhifinut]

I did the "toothpick" adjustment on the AT95E stylus assembly, it was well out of kilter even to the naked eye. I think I have got it as much inline as possible now.
Back in the arm and a recheck of the alignment with protractor and I also tweaked the tracking force up to the maximum recommended of 2g.
It's an awful lot better................. for now. I wonder how long before it gets knocked out of kilter again?
The sounds not too bad I guess, but I'm always aware that its not as refined or detailed as something in the next division.
So that seems to be the issue. I wonder how many other users bin one of these because it sounds bad due to the cantilever rotating in its suspension?

Andy.

[davebms]

I wonder how many other users bin one of these because it sounds bad due to the cantilever rotating in its suspension?

i did

dave