proposed new listening room

[johnlncstr]

Hi guys

I have been silent for some time due to viewing houses and a bout of cluster headaches (not pleasant). I am looking to move and in the process improve my listening space, this has proved to be a big problem due to a variety of reasons and I am now trying to think outside the box and some opinions would be helpful, as I cant find many houses within my price range that will give me large rooms I am considereing the possibilities of modifying a large brick built detached double garage or alternatively obtaining one of those large Finnish log cabins and using that. Any opinions on the adviseability of these ideas would be helpfull. The speakers I use are Tannoy Cheviots with s/tweeters and a Linn 10in sub, the amps are valve monos giving around 20 watts p/c, this info to assist in your comments. As an aside I hope this gets through to you as since the swap to World Designs I have not had any e mails from the forum, perhaps this will initiate them.

Regards

John Lancaster.

[pre65]

Hi John-as far as i am aware you wont get any e-mails !

there is probably a way of setting up something if you go to "user cp" but with the volume of posts and answers we have if you dont check daily the number you have to read (if you want to read them all) when you log in becomes substantial.

Philip

[petercom]

Originally Posted by johnlncstr

Hi guys

I am considereing the possibilities of modifying a large brick built detached double garage or alternatively obtaining one of those large Finnish log cabins and using that. Any opinions on the adviseability of these ideas would be helpfull.
John Lancaster.

Hi John, welcome to the new forum.

Brick built is good, but garages built from block will probably need an internal brick wall to give them the solidity needed to form a good acoustic space. You'll need wooden doors too as metal ones will just resonate. One of the problems with a garage is that there are no 'openings' to break up sound reflections, such as the alcoves, chimney breast, doors, windows and so forth that make up a common living room. You might need to consider adding features like these to avoid a simple cubic space. A plasterboard ceiling with plenty of insulation above it will also help, as will a few bookcases stuffed with books, magazines or LPs positioned on the side walls. You can use rugs rather than fitted carpets if you are incorporating soft furnishings such as a sofa and armchairs. Think typical living room and you won't go far wrong.

Alternatively have you thought of finding a house where you can knock two rooms into one? Most houses have a dining room which hardly anyone uses in addition to a living room. An archway between the rooms is no good as the arch creates a barrier to the sound, so you would need to use an RSJ supported on pillars to replace a wall, especially a supporting one.

If your going to build a room...

I seem to remeber reading somewhere the ideal shape is a large flat sided cone.
So one end wall is wider and higher than the wall your speakers are on.

Cant remember where i read it, but if your building from scratch?

[Scottmoose]

An acquaintance of mine, Terry Cain, of Cain & Cain audio uses what I recall is an old beer warehouse cooler, which is of all-wood construction. Apparantly it sounds lovely, as you'd expect from wood -quiet, slightly warm. I suspect the Finish log cabin will sound very similar. Lovely if you're into horns powered by valves, or low DF T-amps. I can practically hear Yo Yo Ma just thinking about it. For more mainstream use though, I'm natually with Peter. The wood stuff is just a bit too specialised. Though if I could afford it, I'd have both of course. ;>)

[Allen]

Originally Posted by graeme

If your going to build a room...

I seem to remeber reading somewhere the ideal shape is a large flat sided cone.
So one end wall is wider and higher than the wall your speakers are on.

Cant remember where i read it, but if your building from scratch?

There's also the Golden Ratio theory:Room Setup Don't know if this is mumbo with a double dose of jumbo, but I suppose if you can have any size and shape you want it can't hurt to try 1 x 1.618 x 2.618.

[nikki]

Originally Posted by Allen

There's also the Golden Ratio theory:Room Setup Don't know if this is mumbo with a double dose of jumbo, but I suppose if you can have any size and shape you want it can't hurt to try 1 x 1.618 x 2.618.

Hi there

Out of curiousity, i checked out this site. ( not that i would understand any of it!) This is a scary place to be lost in!

[Hugo1]

Originally Posted by Allen

There's also the Golden Ratio theory:Room Setup Don't know if this is mumbo with a double dose of jumbo, but I suppose if you can have any size and shape you want it can't hurt to try 1 x 1.618 x 2.618.

The Golden Ratio is a good point to start from, but be aware that you need a good size room if you want it to be really good, although the larger the room, the more power required to get reasonable listening levels. Small rooms severely restrict what can be done, acoustically, and it's very easy to 'overcook' the overall treatment, especially when furnishings (and indeed people) are factored in. The double garage sounds good in theory, but there will be a low ceiling, which is not desirable in terms of reflections, and which will reduce the room volume (important). Also, once you have insulated the walls to make it liveable, the internal dimensions will be smaller still. Insulated dry lining will also absorb a deal of bass energy, and the room acoustic could easily end up being quite 'dry'. These points aside, I do know someone who has converted a garage as a listening room, and as long as a rather 'dead' acoustic is what is wanted, then fine.

Peter's right about avoiding a simple cubic space, but fancy faux 'auditorium' shapes anywhere but in theatres will be disastrous. A simple reactangular plan room, with careful consideration of absorption and diffusion, will almost always work best.

Audio listening rooms are always (unless you are the chap from SME) a bag of compromises, usually veering towards other domestic uses and the priorities of wives/partners etc. Anyone having the opportunity to construct a dedicated room from scratch is very lucky indeed!

Cheers

Hugo (MIOA)

[hal55]

Some years back HiFi News ran the "Kens Den" article about the basement rebuild that Kessler did as his listening room. I built a deck and room extension with a room that is fairly close to his measurements, mine is 6 x 4 x 2.7 metres (LWH) with a large rug on the wall opposite the speakers and a projection screen between them. It sounds very good but I do think it's just a bit too small for floorstanders, my modified Heybrook 3s are lovely and detailed thru the mid and top but things can get a bit muddy sounding if I push the volume. I've often been tempted to get a smaller pair of speakers and see if they suit the dimensions better. Perhaps Peter would like to comment on the range of room sizes that the WD25T would suit - it's this speaker I'm seriously thinking of building later this year but the bass/mid is the same size as the LF driver in the Heybrooks which has me a touch worried. One thing that is brilliant, and I recommend to anyone thinking of building their own hifi room, is to have it separate to the main house. Mine has a 1.5 metre breezeway separating it with a deck as the common area that both room and house open onto. It works brilliantly, it's part of the house without the obvious disturbance issues.
If I had my time over again I would probably have made the room 7 x 5 metres, I tend to think that would have worked really well but, at about $1000 per sq metre, it would have been a lot more expensive.
Anyone have any thoughts on the optimum size room for different size speakers or speaker drivers? After all, the room is one of the biggest factors of all so it pays to get the balance right. I'd like to hear peoples opinions - I've used the Heybrooks in three different rooms of this house and they sound very different in each (which I guess you'd expect but it's still an eye opener just how different they are.

Hal55

[Scottmoose]

6x4x2.7 meters? That works out at 19 1/2 x 13 x 8 3/4 ft. Not what I'd call too small for floorstanders. It could be that the Heybrook's drivers are getting tired, and IIRC, they weren't as happy as some (though better than many) when cranked up loud. I suspect the WD25t, which I suppose is Peter's modern interpretation, will do much better. The Seas drivers are excellent quality & have plenty of linear travel.