Starting a vinyl collection – is it worth it for classical music?

[G Willis]

Starting a vinyl collection – is it worth it for classical music?

I am in the position of having a fairly substantial classical CD collection which has been copied to a hard disk in lossless format. I play this through an external DAC – Chord 2Cute, WDKT88XL and Tannoy Stirling's.

Lately though, I have been hankering after a good record deck; ideally I would like to acquire a good Garrard 401 or a Lenco and mount it in a slate plinth and endow it with an excellent arm and cartridge.

So really I would welcome some opinions from those who may have trodden this path. There does not seem to be a wealth of new classical recordings available on vinyl although there are plenty of historical recording on the second hand market. Does the availability of new classical music on vinyl mean its not really worth the not inconsequential investment involved? Does the particular sonic quality of vinyl lend itself to classical music? Does its suitability differ for orchestral versus chamber music?

Any thoughts welcome….

[bob orbell]

I can not comment on your choise of music, but a good turntable arm cartridge and phono stage is going to set you back many hundreds of pounds, or even thousands, so that money buy's you a lot of CD's, there is something very rewarding though, about having a good record playing system . BOB

[Baggy Trousers]

Originally Posted by bob orbell

I can not comment on your choise of music, but a good turntable arm cartridge and phono stage is going to set you back many hundreds of pounds, or even thousands, so that money buy's you a lot of CD's, there is something very rewarding though, about having a good record playing system . BOB

Wisdom here.

My first decent turntable was a Garrard 201 which started with an American Bush arm followed by a home-made contraption followed by a Burne Jones Watts linkage gizmo followed by a Garrard Transcription followed by a Pickering Unipoise followed by a Decca International followed by an SME and so it went on. This wondrous progress was paralleld by similar adventures with turntables.

From all this I learnt only a couple of things - avoid idler-wheel turntables and what an obscene amount of money had been spent in seeking what I finally determined was the unobtainable. Ho hum. Nothing of any of this left now of course. Well, not quite correct; I still have and treasure the Tannoy Autographs I bought in 1966. Hell, that's over half a century ago. Bloody frightening!

Mercifully, all this complication was made redundant with the arrival of the CD, (although it did take a lot of fun out of things). For quite some time CDs drew their content from 78/LP sources so the claimed fidelity of digital recording could not be realised. Now the reverse applies - the new-fangled "vinyl" will have to rely on digitally recorded material which would seem to negate the purpose of having it in the first place. I don't see the new market ever expanding to a point where the analogue classical library will be able to match that of 25 years of DDR so choices invariably will be limited.

I no longer am able to make a judgment of the merits or otherwise of these systems but frankly, I fail to understand why anyone should wish to revert to this old technology. But I ride a 1949 motorbike, so what do I know?

[bob orbell]

Yes, I compleatly agree Baggo, especially the bit about idler drive, what I was trying to say, is if you already have a large record collection, then go for the best turntable you can afford, if not, stick with CD or down load. BOB

[snowman_al]

Like you I have all my CD collection on hard drive now (flac) and 90% of my listening is on that format. It is so convenient.

But being a child of the 1950s I was brought up on LPs and still have a collection, both classical and 'popular'. There is no getting away from it vinyl does have / do something different. There are some pieces I will only listen to on LP, the better often 'remixed' CD versions can often be sterile in comparison. But that's OK if you've only ever heard the CD...
I agree with Baggy about new recordings that are straight to digital too. That and that many of the LP mastering skills have been forgotten / lost.

I still buy the occasional record and I've found charity and second hand shops a good place to find good quality classical LPs. They do appear to be in much better condition than played to death pop. Also you can find the original recording rather than the re-mastered versions. There are some real gems out there and no big risk for a pound or two.

As to the turntable, I've owned a Garrard 301 and 2 x 401s. Yes their weighty presentation can sound wonderful, but they need so much TLC. You will eventually end up listening to the deck 'click, rumble, knock and hum' and not the record... If adjusting and keeping the mechanics in first class order appeals and money does not matter, certainly try one (or two, because the next one will be better surely?) If listening to the music is most important get something with a belt drive. I'm more than happy with a couple of older Regas now...

May be best advice would be start from a different place first. Try a belt drive turntable, 2nd hand Regas and Projects are cheap enough, do not forget you will need a decent phono stage too. Find a couple of records you are familiar with already on CD and see if you like the format. If you do sell on and move up. If you don't, just sell it on...
Alan

[bikerhifinut]

for less than the price of a fettled 401 (and they can sound very good if refurbished/serviced to as new), I'd agree with the perceived wisdom here and go for a well thought of low maintenance modern deck.
My pennorth would be the Michell GyroSE with a Rega or Rega based arm as being excellent value for money and some real quality engineering. It'll see you out if given a simple annual service of bearing clean and oilchange and the odd drive belt.
As to the worth of LP classical, my experience has been mixed and there's nothing nicer than a nice quiet pressing of a classical piece. But I have too many LPs of classical where the perceived difference in audio quality, ( I won't say better, too subjective) is let down by surface noise just where you dont want it.
Far better to invest in a new CD player or DAC if you only listen to classical I feel, and enjoy the increased dynamic range of CD and spend the change on more lovely music.

Andy.

[Riggers]

Hi All
From my point of view I have a fair amount of classical music on vinyl as well as CD. The thing with classical music on vinyl is that (here in Oz at least) there is such a good selection to be had at charity shops for so little. The market demand for used vinyl for pop/rock from 1960's onward is such that the prices keep going up up up but decent classical recordings from good labels/artists can still be had for a relatively cheap outlay. Its nice to have the full size format of artwork and besides, classic music lovers always took better care of their records��

[Black Stuart]

G Willis,
before you embark on an expensive vinyl replay journey, take a look at what inter/connects you use for CD. I spent 4 years on them trying all kinds of materials and designs and used a Marantz 63 KI signature CDP and a Bada PH12 h/amp with Senn 650s to listen to the results.

When I moved to Spain there was a CD that was all the rage then - Mucho Flores by Rosario Flores. I bought it, got it home and using a KAT88, the Marantz and listening through Heybrook Sextet mk 1V speakers - it was so bright it was unlistenable.

When I arrived at my final selection of materials and designs this CD was enjoyable. There is so much b/s associated with i/connects it's almost unbelieveable.

If you use **** materials you will get a **** sound out of them. The dialectric, the conductors and the design used are all important. I was selling my ultimate design successfully but it was difficult and time consuming without a proper jig to build them on and health problems cropped up as well. If I can find an engineer who can make me a usable jig I will go back to making them on a commercial basis.

The only material I hav'nt tried as conductor is 6N copper solid core, the 7N is very, very expensive and I doubt than anyone will hear the difference. Yes I know there is a problem with using bare copper that may be solved using Pro-Gold to stop oxidisation as long as it does'nt compromise Heavyside's findings.

I have to thank two people, my Dutch friend Harry and a semi-retired American professor who mentioned the name Heavyside. Harry said that 'balance' was important, he was correct and Lord Heavyside whose work on electrical conduction before the end of the 19th century has never been challenged. It does'nt seem at all strange knowing the sclerotic mentality that pervades so much of the audio world totally ignores Heaviside's work.

The only cable where shielding should be used, indeed mandatory is power cords but never on i/connects it severely distorts the signal. Air cored dialectric is a no contest selection as is solid core. Quality silver/plated copper gives a very neutral sound but never use heavily silvered type or you end up with a 'silver' sound. High purity silver will add a touch of warmth, a boon with some systems. AWG - most will agree that between 32 and 24 is preferable. Multi-conductors give a superior sound, I don't know why but listening tests from many confirm this. Teflon is not the best dialectric but the very similar FEP is. Do not think that you can save on the return conductor/s they have to mirror the signal conductors exactly.

To get the ultimate improvement the signal wiring in your amp should match the i/connects exactly. The signal wiring is THE most important part of a system, it is the logical conclusion but many treat it as not really important, totally irrational but that's audio for you.

[Black Stuart]

I have mentioned this before - if you have a high speed connection ( I now have fibre optic) and can get the music channels Mezzo and Brava in the UK why bother with either LP,CD or DVD or download.

With our old provider, Orange we would have to pay but now with Bouygeus these 2 channels come for free along with other music channels - rap (****) DJ and others of no interest to us but these two classical/jazz channels are brilliant.

Where else could I view like an actual member of the audience the best orchestras/conductors and listening environments in the world as part of a 3-1 package. As a stand alone deal these two channels cost €15 per month.

[bob orbell]

Great if you like classical or jazz Stuart, but useless if you don't . BOB