Black gate /os - con/silmic caps

[acorn]

Hi all

I know quite a few of you have used the above caps, I may have left some high quality ones out, please correct me if I have.

I myself have only used the Silmic ones. What in the panels opinion are the best sounding caps of these three, I have read that black gates take a long time to burn in do the others mentioned take as long ?

Regards Acorn

[NealG]

depends on the application!

[acorn]

Hi Neal

Lets say, cathode bias caps for output valves , how would they sound ?

Acorn

[buddam]

Hi Neil

there's been quite a lot of debate on this on the DIY section of audioasylum (do a google search). I was looking at it this week and, while it is not quite a consensus, there's clear support for Silmics over BG. But, most of those who'd tried Silmics favoured the mark Is (ROS) over mark IIs (RFS??).

But, as Neal says, application is important

Adrian

[James D]

For SE output stages the debate is moot if you use the WE ultrapath connection and use two caps one cathode bypass and the second from OPT B+ connection to the cathode. This should be a good PP or PIO and bypasses the psu and cathode bypass acheiving a shorter output current loop and a significant step up in sound quality.

See Neals thread on this.

James

[NealG]

Yes, the UP in SE works well! Not had a chance to try in PP yet.

For cathode Bypass I prefer BG's. Oscons don't come in the required voltage AFAIK and are recommended really for digital applications. TBH I don't rate them, I tend to use Stargets for low voltage stuff. Sometime ago Leo put me onto Nichicon Fine Gold's (FG) and these work very well in a number of different applications like small low voltage PSU and signal valve cathode bypass, probably better than the Stargets. As always YMMV !

[leo:)]

I tried a few different caps in my KIT88's cathode bypass including Silmics,BG's etc, to me in this application the BGs was easily the best of the lot, the BG FK was also very good, I personally cannot stand the Elna Silmic ROS or 2, I've tried them in various pieces of kit and just don't like the sonic signature they add where as others do, the best thing to do is give them a try

I agree with Neal, the Nichicon FG's are not bad for a cheap cap but obviously work better in some applications than others.

[buddam]

Naughty possibly, but this from audio asylum is interesting. Can't comment myself having done no comparisons, but others may want to:

"To me, silmic lower the sound level of H F. and boost lower frequency. When playing 1812 SACD from Telarc, the dynamic contrast is amazingly huge which is out of proportion. (but telarc tend to exaggerates dynamic contrast)

It also provides the richest ambiance any capacitor can get. Its sound is generally graceful and tender but still articulate and clear..

It seems to soften the first few picosecond of attacks but boost everything after the first few mini seconds on every note. Imagine someone who hit a note on keyboard of a piano, that note may not have the sharpest "frame" or a cleanest "outline," but the mid and the ending section of that note is reverberant, effervescent and emotionally rich. this may smear dynamic shaddings a bit, but it's very good to me..

Disadvantages of Elna s is that the transparancy is not the best and some may find it a bit soft. Again, silmic has the biggest lower end from many caps I've tried, but not the fastest...though very well controlled. Tonality is good but midrange presentation could be a bit more organic , which brings BG into this discussion.

BG has an organic texture at mid section that nothing can come close. I do mean nothing!! They are very transparent to show the sound of power cords, wall outlets, CD treatments, ICs and power conditioners. great pace appears to be at upper bass region to the highest F. They sound very clean and detailing..

It's time for bad news for BG. they are edgy at high F. and a bit small sounding at lower end with lesser ambiance... very careful matching of power cords and ICs is a must for BG caps. When everything is done right, BG can be the fastest race car and the tightest ass you can get your hands on...

I can somehow suggest BG for tube components and Elna for Solid state... My opinions about these two types of caps are based on comparisons "between them." If you wnat to know the sound of Nichicon by comparison with BG and Elna, it will take forever.... Briefly speaking, Nichicon audio grade caps have a smoother sound then BG with a very good mid bass but not as organic in midsection like BG, but better than Elna to me in this region. Not as transparent as BG, but it strike a pretty good balance between accuracy and emotional impact. I like the high of elna S; upper midrange to upper bass from BG; mid bass from Nichicon and the lower end from elna... who can make a component like this for me???."

[James D]

The bottom line on caps used in SE amps is that the amp context and then the system context is everything - you will not get consistently ranked results accross different amps in different systems... you have to try it and see in your system. This is one reason the WE mod is so effective and it cuts out some of the variables - not only releasing better sound quality but also improving consistancy of results across amps (although it doesnt help even out different systems...)

And you canbet your bottom dollar that your own choice will change over time too as your listening experiences change...

Don't believe me? Ask Paul!

James

[Paul Barker]

Adrian I think it's naughty to omit the reference, we don't know the name of the speaker, critical to know who said this.

As with everything we read on the net we have to take it with a pinch of psalt if we haven't heard for ourselves what the guy is on about.

This is why i like to do demos at eggfests, i harp on about the different sounds but I am also able to demonstrate this. You will note from my past posts I usually refer to a meeting where so and so was present when I demonstrated the sound of the 813 against the 211 etc etc.

That post had far too much unqualified opinion of the poster alone to be taken seriously.

Some people here think I'm didactic, but I can back up every statement with a demonstration on request.

Only thing I can say about caps is Black Gate wkz is unbeaten in power supply except by no ca, then only marginally. Actually the difference between Black Gate and no cap is that you can hear colouration from the Black Gate, but it is actually a pleasent colouration that the ear would easily adopt as "normal".

In other positions you have to try various caps until you strike lucky. It's actually a lottey and about buying various caps inclsing as many vintage pio's you can get your hands on. Some sound geat and some sound dirty and horrible, from the same stable in different situations. every situation requires an personal empirical test. If you can't be bothered to do your own test you deserve to be in the hands of the net experts who have taken freewill from you.