WD25A compared to Dynaco A-25's?

[nodiak]

I am interested in comparison of the original Dynaco's with the WD25A. I have some old but working ("perfect condition" they say...) Dynaco alnico 10's and tweeters on the way to me and will try them in the stand mount aperiodic cabs designed for WD25A. I think when funds allow I will get the WD25A (shipping to usa is expensive).
I'm mostly curious about the differences/similarities of the woofers, I'm sure the new tweeters and crossovers are much better.
Thought a comparison of old and new would be interesting while I idle away the weeks.
Thanks, Don

[petercom]

Hi, we have recently unearthed a pair of the original Dynaco A25s, with Alnico magnets, and carried out such a comparison. As you might expect the midrange and treble detailing of the new WD25As is far superior, however the Dynacos were considerably lower in sensitivity. This gave them an almost recessed midband, with a concomitant emphasis in the bass region. In fact the bass performance was closer in level comparison to the WD25T, though not as extended as the latter, naturally.

I would say, therefore, that the WD25T is the closest, tonally, to the Dynaco A25 with the added benefit of the superior midrange and treble detailing, especially in the XL version. What I was surprised at was the closeness in character between the two considering that all I had to go on during the design process was my own memory of how the A25s sounded thirty odd years ago.

I had wondered whether such an audible memory might have some of the aspects of 'rose tinted spectacles' but, no, the Dynaco A25s were every bit as good as I remembered them and, recessed midband apart, would stand up very well to many modern so-called high end loudspeakers.

[Cycleallday]

An interesting response Peter,

"I had wondered whether such an audible memory might have some of the aspects of 'rose tinted spectacles' but, no, the Dynaco A25s were every bit as good as I remembered them"

I had the benefit of listening to your own standmounts and (even after eggfest 4) still think the sound I heard at your office was what I was looking for (WD88VA amp and WD25T speakers). However, it has intrigued me as to why somebody with the ability to produce such a speaker for a major company did not do so but simply followed the pack in terms of speaker production. Why now go back to the old designs of aperidodic and transmission line when all the commercial guys seem to be heading in another direction?

Please don't stop as I like it - but just wondered why?

Mel

[petercom]

If you've looked at my past history you will see that I have started (and sold) a commercial speaker company (Heybrook) and worked as Head of R&D at Mission until it became Chinese. In addition I have worked in broadcasting, hi-fi journalism and retail during my years of being immersed in all things to do with sound recording and reproduction.

During this time I've seen a steady downturn in the performance of high end products largely due to the public's preoccupation with looking for things which are smaller and easier to use. So speakers have become progressively smaller (or at least thinner) and digital has taken over as the primary source. Unfortunately when one is working for a commercial company selling near-mass-market products one has to follow the sales line.

However my memory of living with good high end hi-fi in the '60s and '70s hasn't left me. I have fond memories of Radford Valve amplifiers, Revox G36 tape recorders, Garrard 401 and Lenco G88 turntables, Quad ELS speakers, and so on. Those were the heady days when everyone knew that good sound came out of large boxes. "There's no substitute for a good big 'un" as the saying went.

Of course those days were also populated by the Dansette and the Radiogram and, later, the Music Centre and Compact Cassette. I'm not denying that the popular products have always been small and convenient, and it will always be so. But there is no reason why high end hi-fi has to suffer the same way.

So, to answer your question, I am now free, at World Designs, to go back to the good design rules of the '60s and '70s and bring them up to date. Aperiodic speakers are not commercially available because they don't provide the boombastic bass that shops find easy to sell. Transmission Lines are in the minority because they are big and unwieldy and shops find them very difficult to sell alongside the slimline, bass reflex, boom boxes that sit beside them.

At least valve amplifiers and vinyl are enjoying something of a renaissance. Unfortunately most of the valve amps on the market today are worse than their transistor counterparts in many ways. At least we can put the record straight at World Designs by offering you kits that outperform almost anything available commercially at many times the price, whether SS or valve.

More to the point, I'm enjoying reproduced music again. I hope you are too.

[Cobblers]

Originally Posted by Cycleallday

,


I had the benefit of listening to your own standmounts and (even after eggfest 4) still think the sound I heard at your office was what I was looking for (WD88VA amp and WD25T speakers). However, it has intrigued me as to why somebody with the ability to produce such a speaker for a major company did not do so but simply followed the pack in terms of speaker production. Why now go back to the old designs of aperidodic and transmission line when all the commercial guys seem to be heading in another direction?

Mel

Sad fact is that if the loudspeaker manufacturer put the WD25a into production for general retail it would be commercial suicide. This hasn't stopped the product being superb.

In terms of Loudspeakers even what most hifi enthusiasts would consider smaller mini monitors loudspeakers (5 1/4 inch drivers) are fast becoming unacceptably huge in many households in this age of wireless sat speakers and tiny ipod convenience.
I believe decent size speakers with 6 1/2 inch cone bass mid could even eventually go the way of the 8 inch driver speakers of yore, let alone the 10 inchers of the 25's. Consigned to the history books and enthusiast products like this.

I applaud Peter and WD for making this product, someone has to put music first, without charging insane money for it. I'm sure Peter could shift far more pretty little slimline "me too" boxes (even though the market is flooded with them).
I'm glad Peter's fed up with doing the commercial thing, I hope he (and all those involved with WD) can make a decent crust with it too.

I didn't stop enjoying reproduced music before building the WD25's, but they certainly have enhanced my enjoyment of it a great deal.

[nodiak]

Thanks for the replies. I just received the Dynaco 25TV-EW alnico woofers. There are in great physical condition and I'll try to get cabinets built in the next week or two. I'll use some Scanspeak 9300 tweeters I have and go with a simple crossover like the original A25's. 5uf cap and a resistor (will try several to match levels) in series with the tweeter. Should be interesting.
There's a fair following of the A25's, and discussion of the various models online.
Although Madisound carries a replacement woofer for the A25's it appears the woofer used is another model.
Peter, interesting about the sensitivity difference, that will matter as I'm using a 20 watt tube amp. I will have a powered sub as part of the system as I like clean bottom actaves and don't want to stress the midwoofers.
Anyway it could be possible for me to afford the WD25A's in next few weeks or months, they sound like my type of speaker system.
Thanks Cobblers for your posts about the WD25A's, they have helped me get a good idea of their sound qualities.
Take care, Don

[petercom]

Sensitivity was around 2dB lower, say 87dB for 2.83v (1Watt 8 Ohms), on average, but this didn't take into account the recessed midband which added a lot more 'warmth' to the sound and a corresponding loss of detail. This makes the original A25 a 'nice' sounding speaker but without the tonal accuracy that modern speakers can display.

I may go back again to the WD25A crossover to see if I can get closer to the overall balance of the A25, and its corresponding lower sensitivity, but maintain the accuracy, clarity and detail that we are currently getting. A project for the new year, perhaps, along with all the others I am going to be working on for the Hi-Fi World Speaker Design series.

[heinermoessing]

Hi everybody,

I consider to get the WD A speaker kit, but want some opinion before ordering.

first of all let me tell you that I am in hifi for 32 years now and actully blew a lot of money on the way to audio nirvana.

I don't want to compain about this as it was a good time with a lot of fun and I met a lot of nice people during this time.

But I completely lost the main goal of all: listening to my very large collection of LPs and CDs.

I owned Quad 63 and Maggies 1.4, MS 50 i, Reference 3 a, Yamaha NS 1000 m (current speaker) Onkyo SC 60 and 901 etc.

And now the unconvenient truth:

My starting gear (Onkyo TX 4500 with SC 60 speakers) has never been surpassed when it comes to enjoying music.

I have a Dynaco classic ("23" I think) in my weekend country home, placed on a sideboard! There I never care about cables, moving speakers by inces etc. It just sounds ok and I love the music.

I never ever liked any speaker put on stands! I took the Dynacos to my main house, put them on stands and was very disapointed!

I never ever liked floorstanding speakers! The exception maybe were the panel speakers mentioned above.

Recently I started to like speakers fixed to the wall close to the ceiling (small 4 inch cubes by Pioneer) or even ceiling mounted speakers (JBL, Bosch). Both set ups are in my favourite coffee shops.

So I am quite biased on the bookshelf speakers and will place them exactly where they belong: on the shelf.

I read a review that the 25 T is weak in tonal rightness. I heardly can belive this as paper woofers mostly get it right to my ears. Any other material sounds "exciting" but not musical.


My Yamahas sound as perfect as any hifi speaker could be: fast, exciting, imaging like crazy, etc. But my Dynacos let me forget about the gear and concentrate on the music.

I guess that the WD A sound "warmer" than my Yamahas. Th Y. are so "right" that it si nearly shocking but the Dynacos go right :into the heart"

I live in Thailand, so don't invite me for listening, but comments are more than welcome!

Best regards
Heiner