Chinese dilemma

[attilio7]

Hi all, I have just seen a very disturbing report on sky news about human rights abuse in china, I did not realise that it was as bad as shown by sky. This is making me reconsider my attitude on buying Chinese electronics.

attilio

[andrew ivimey]

If we start with Hi-FI we have Quad, NXT and quite a few other manufacturers with Western names all busily being built in China.

If we look at 1000s of items of goods and clothing in high street shops we also see that they are made in the People's Republic of China.

It would be very interesting to see how easily we could live in UK and completley avoid Chinese goods. It isn't just valves!

When you also look at the Human Rights record of many developing woirld countries, all 'friends' of the West then there are even fewer countries left with which to trade.

And do we buy American when they are the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons and are generally acceptede to be appallingly imperialistic in their economic and political dominant position?

Stick to Danish bacon (if you are not a Muslim or a Jew) and B&O record players. They have to be safe?

[attilio7]

Hi andrew, you make some very good points, there are know easy solutions, it's a much bigger problem than cheap hi-fi.

attilio

[Scottmoose]

Agreed. I worry somewhat about Chinese manufacturing -I know we'd struggle mightily without it, but I dislike the notion of doing business with a country that treats it's own citizens in such a way.

OTOH, most (all?) of the western nations are hardly shining examples of morality. As a member of Amnesty International, a supporter of the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation, and a friend of the poet James Kirkup, I have utter contempt for the idea of sticking one's head in the sand (which I try to balance with the fact that I'm a naval historian and strategist). But equally, we can't change everything. I reckon that if you're concerned, try to find out if the factory / company that produces the product actually pays its workers well, and treats them properly. Increasingly, quite a few do. It's not the ultimate solution, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

[Cobblers]

[quote=andrew ivimey]And do we buy American when they are the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons and are generally acceptede to be appallingly imperialistic in their economic and political dominant position?

QUOTE]

Unfortunately, the world is filled with dark and disturbing hard truths and many situations cannot be rectified with black and white, right or wrong moral judgements.
The ending of the war against Japan is one such situation.
It is accepted by many (even those living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki) that the Americans HAD to drop the bomb in order to stop the war.
The Japanese had a proud history of fighting to the last man, and would have gleefully continued to fight on, in full knowledge that they could not possibly win. Many millions more would have died, instead of many thousands.
This is not a western mindset, we must not cast our moral judgements based on western logic of today against those of imperial Japan.

There is not a Country in the world that does not have dirty economic past (and indeed present).
We have always lived in a sick world where the weak are exploited for the wealthy and the moral injustices of others are ignored in ratio to their usefullness in trade and military power.

[Ianm2]

I wouldn't just worry about china.

Most if not all computer stuff, electronics, anything made of plastic, probably metal, cheap things, tools, furniture, soft furnishings, sofas, washing machines, parts of cars, clothes, dvd's, you name it, are coming from china now, its not just your hifi.

If you don't know already, have a look on the things you buy to see where they are made, you are in for a shock, and the amount, its a total deluge and assault.

british insurance and call companies taking the jobs from us and employing indians at rock bottom prices, I will not by principle custom these companies who take jobs away. someone has to take a stand.

I encourage all to stand up for this sort of thing, I am worried by it, and to people who say I will go where I wish, just wait until they start taking your job away abroad. We must act now b4 we become 3rd world, we are now 2nd world.

you should see what the food industry is doing. they make food cheap for them, filling it full of additives, enhancers, preservatives, substitutes, chemicals, so they can use few decent ingredients, just look at the percentages of decent proper food in things, and still charge a fortune.

tescos trampling the local economy


loook into how chickens and animals are treated, and also animal testing.

all the supermarkets importing food from 12,000 miles away, brazil, zambia, the coffee, again they pay the foreign farmers absoulte zilch.

the reason marks and sparks has gone and is going down the nick, apart from the poor syling of its clothes and confused buyers not being able to see what people will want to buy, is that now production of clothes has largely gone to sweatshops.

see where your green beans and fruit comes from, whilst we can grow a lot of stuff here.

what they have done to local farmers, milk.

the junk in the food they poison us with...

your children are being addicted to fat and salt by money hungry corporates, truly, they are poisoning, and addicting, that sounds pretty criminal to me, with long term health issues. it IS an addiction.

also, the banking industry and some british goods too, arms makers, what about not paying taxes, whilst I have to pay taxes, I don't want my tax money spending on the illegal immoral, criminal bush crusade that is categorically the biggest most sinister evil and alarming global threat without shadow of a shadow. so much so I would go to prison and let them spend more of your taxes to supposedly punich, rehablitate, make me see my error, etc....only to entrench me further in this view.

as the mod allowed american planes to stop over at raf bases and convey their bombs to israel in that dreadful massacre on civilians?, yes whilst innocents were losing homes, the yanks still flew bombs over, and supplied israel using our airspace and bases to refuel, and perhaps even equip?

it goes much further than simple china, you could even say, australian goods for the way they treat/ed the natives, ditto with new zealand, portugese and spanish for south america, same and dutch for decimating north americas natives...

what about indian slave labour, british slave labour? as we are, slaves to the big business who make millions out of paying us as little as they can get away with...

it goes on and on....

I actually met a guy from school not long ago who takes opiates and would sell if he could, he makes some of the politicians and corporate types like hitler and stalin,

so much to the extent I have redefined the way I think of users, under the medical umbrella, people take to relieve symptoms, cannabinoids and opiates are used as a medicine licensed, its a societal conditioned thing, people take illegally, and simply use as a medicine, to make them feel ok, to relieve symptoms, alcohol is far worse in effect than I have seen. they use simply as a remedy, anything else is propaganda, by mass murderers, strong words all this

I am aghast at the hypocrisy, persecuting us innocents for putting bins out on the wrong day, a lax speeding or parking ticket, whilst this is going on in the world.

we are living in the world with evil evil men in american politics, worse imo than hitler.

the point I am attempting to make, is that there is far far more than meets the eye on the simplified dumbed down media reports of what is going on in the world, its a spec. of dust in an infinite galaxy, and shows how much the media can influence your views, start investigating what's really going on.

All this has or is happening now, ask yourself why you are not aware of it.

Just remember one thing, politicians, police, councillors, and public servants are voted, represent us,

and serve US,

no one else,

ever!

[Dave_The_Vinyl_Junkie]

I know what you mean about the outsourcing thing - I've been in IT for years and it's like living with the Sword of Damocles.

(Edited out earlier rant as it went way off topic and had nowt to do with the original post).

[Baggy Trousers]

"It is accepted by many (even those living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki) that the Americans HAD to drop the bomb in order to stop the war.
The Japanese had a proud history of fighting to the last man, and would have gleefully continued to fight on, in full knowledge that they could not possibly win. Many millions more would have died, instead of many thousands".

This was the rationale advanced at the time and subsequently has received general acceptance. As a tactical justification, it is not without merit but historically is quite inaccurate.

At the time of the A-bombings, Japan effectively was defeated (although much of the military was in denial) and was preparing to offer a surrender. This was known to the Allies. Consequently, there was no acceptable reason for resorting to this level of carnage at a time which clearly was very close to the end of the Japanese conflict. The real reason for the deployment of these bombs was publicly to demonstrate the power of this new (and up till then, secret) weapon with a view to detering the Russians who at that stage did not have a nuclear capability. They had declared war on Japan a day or two peviously and clearly had unwelcome ambitions in that and other parts of the post-war world.

By all means boycott those who you feel to have transgressed but remember the adage about people living in glass houses . . . . the number of civilians who died in the british concentration camps greatly exceeded that of the military dead on both sides of the South African (Boer) campaign. All nations have skeletons in the cupboard but, sadly, these ossified artifacts seem to teach us nothing, vide Guantanamo Bay which is hugely to America's discredit.

Richard.

Beam tetrodes rule OK?

[G.Axiom]

Originally Posted by Baggy Trousers

" At the time of the A-bombings, Japan effectively was defeated (although much of the military was in denial) and was preparing to offer a surrender. This was known to the Allies. Consequently, there was no acceptable reason for resorting to this level of carnage at a time which clearly was very close to the end of the Japanese conflict. The real reason for the deployment of these bombs was publicly to demonstrate the power of this new (and up till then, secret) weapon with a view to detering the Russians who at that stage did not have a nuclear capability. They had declared war on Japan a day or two peviously and clearly had unwelcome ambitions in that and other parts of the post-war world.


Richard.

Beam tetrodes rule OK?

Richard, thank you for your opinion. I generally agree with it, and, altough some might find that issue perhaps debatable I liked to remind that much more recent and more vulgar display of how economics controls policy of a super-power is the second Gulf War.

Beam tetrodes rule! I've got an 6550PP in as low amp now and it certainly rocks! :p

[James D]

But what do Bean tetrodes rule???

And why are they secretly supressing penthodes whilst consigning triodes to the ghetto???

Inquiring minds wish to know....