cryo valves

[novalves]

I now have 10 valves .........................!

Anyway, I just acquired a deux Telefunken ECC82s (really long plates) - cryogenically treated (for the Pre3). They took a couple of days to settle down - (a loudish hiss disappeared just before I was going to take them out). There's still a bit of hiss left compared to the JJs (Why, oh why ?)

The sound is a touch softer, that's the valve thing (even when driving a transistor amp) but imaging is now quite startling depending on the source, eg. brass in Pawnshop CD 1. So, good value. It's a bit tricky to separate the Telefunken sound from whatever the cryo treatment adds since I'd not heard these valves before.

Anyone else having a cryogenic experience ? Apparently cable, connectors etc benefit too. Could this be the norm in the future for World Designs - all kits cryoed before sale

[Richard]

Interesting post as Telefunken are generally thought of as excellent valves. Perhaps dimensional contraction when freezing them may have moved the construction a little. Then they moved back after a bit of use/heat/expansion. Tapping them on a table top sometimes stops a noisy one too.

We had a chat about possible reasons for noisey Pre3 valves here, http://wduk.worldomain.net/forum/sho...8653#post58653

Just last night friend GerryB told me one of his was noisey - he'd swapped them around to check. He's popping over to pick up mine, as one of those was noisey also, so he should then have a good pair!

Rich

[novalves]

After 10 days the sound is even better. The gain is "valve" smoothness to the sound.
In an all valve system this is something to be careful about - too smooth/soft ? - (like a return to 1960's valve sound but with fully extended freq extremes - something I heard in another system).

One of the issues of a great sound system is the way it reveals the quality of the sound source. This in turn raises an issue re upgrading - if a top-notch source is not played then the upgrade could be dismissed!

This was brought home to me after listening to Beethoven violin concerto/Grumiaux/Davis. On side one there was not a blip - the violin was smooth, extended, timbrally correct and beautiful. Maybe I cried a bit. It was just perfect from beginning to end. Compared to a real violin (I have one) the violin sound could have been accused of being too romantic but I don't care!
So Telefunken+cryo treatment is the goods.

I'll try the tapping trick Richard - one of the valves makes noises from time to time. Thanks.

[David Mccallum]

I tryed cryo treated Telefunken ECF80's in a KEL84 a couple of years ago and i must say i found it a complete waste of money.
The sound changed but was'nt improved and after a few days use one valve became so micraphonic i had to send it back.
I found reproduction Mullards sounded better so i sold the Telefunkens at a loss.
It could be that the modded KEL was'nt up to exposing the differences as improvement but it put me off cryo treatment for good.
I've found better gains by using decent interconnects!

BTW Philips and Mullard made dam good valves which sound fine without freezing them.

I hav'nt yet reached the stage of taking Peter Belt's madness seriously

[novalves]

I have cryo-ed Telefunken ECC82s.
There are tweaks/changes where the change is so slight that it merges with everything else, more or less, and ceases to be identifiable particularly by a new listener to the system. The new valves change is more than that - it's like changing amps from transistor to valve (something I did as a trial).

I have made several sets of cryo-treated mains cables - the effect is an extra depth of 1m or so to the sound stage, easily noticeable by new listeners to the system. Cryo-treated speaker cables I have - probably remove harshness from the sound (or is it the weave of the cable, the OFC used, or all of these things ?!

I am now wondering about interconnects - would there be a benefit from using cryo-treated ones ? Can one have too much smoothness ?

[kuroguy]

oh ****. ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****. I can't believe I just did this. I wanted to see if re-cryoing my interconnects would really improve the sound so I got a bottle of liquid nitrogen from the university lab. I took my $6000 cryo treated cables that sounded wonderful. I mean they alone added at least 640 cm to the soundstage depth and I hung them into the liquid nitrogen. All was going well until I dropped the cold cables. They shattered. Just like glass. Am I farked? I was hoping to increase the depth by at least another 240 cm and now they're all over the floor. PLease, Please, Please. Can somebody tell me what to do to reassemble them? at this point I'd settle for just 320 cm of the original 640 cm depth.

Help. I'm desperate, or am I screwed?

[Dik Dolan]

No, you're not screwed....you now have several hundred very short interconnects.

[novalves]

Often incremental changes mean more of the same - eg. when I have changed transistor amps. The BIG (well HUGE) problem with transistors and digital is the harshness. It's horrible. I listen to and play "real" instruments so when transistors and digital sources "manufacture", new harsh digital versions of familiar instruments it's easy to spot that the "music" is nothing if the sort! Cryogenically treated components have brought me closer to the authentic sound - better sound staging, considerably less harshness, fabulous imaging with jazz CDs - this one was a real ey-opener: Charlie Byrd (laserlight digital 1990). But I have heard better in an all-valve system!

What valve amp would give me the emotional experience, timing, timbre of a world-class 350w/p ch transistor amp (Perreaux 350p into 92db sensitive speakers drive by Pre3).

What the Perreaux amp has is "grip" in the bass and just amazing timing. It's the timing I would be most interested in in a new valve amp. w/ch is not important.

[pre65]

Originally Posted by kuroguy

oh ****. ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****. I can't believe I just did this. I wanted to see if re-cryoing my interconnects would really improve the sound so I got a bottle of liquid nitrogen from the university lab. I took my $6000 cryo treated cables that sounded wonderful. I mean they alone added at least 640 cm to the soundstage depth and I hung them into the liquid nitrogen. All was going well until I dropped the cold cables. They shattered. Just like glass. Am I farked? I was hoping to increase the depth by at least another 240 cm and now they're all over the floor. PLease, Please, Please. Can somebody tell me what to do to reassemble them? at this point I'd settle for just 320 cm of the original 640 cm depth.

Help. I'm desperate, or am I screwed?

This must be a wind up ?

What DIY nutter would spend $6000 on cables ?

No further comment.




Philip

[John T]

Originally Posted by pre65

This must be a wind up ?

What DIY nutter would spend $6000 on cables ?

If you're into exotic cables etc, it's not difficult Philip. For example, Kimber "Black Pearl" is c. £10,200 for an 8 feet pair and there are many others! An acquaintance must have spent at least £15,000 on various cables and i/c's - I think he's mad but he's perfectly happy and after all, it's his money!